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Re:TSA's Head of Security 'Removed' from Office by marcus_holmes on Tuesday May 24, 2016 @10:09AM (#11761608)
I think we can work this out.

Everyone in the USA has the right to bear arms, and a lot of them do. Result: huge murder rate.

Everyone in the rest of the world does not have the right to carry guns around the place. Result: much smaller murder rate.

I think we can infer that if everyone could take guns on planes then we'd have more people shooting guns on planes and hence more death on planes.

Going from that to stopping people from carrying pocket knives on planes is the bit that I think is suspect logic.

Re:TSA's Head of Security 'Removed' from Office by zeveb on Tuesday May 24, 2016 @10:25AM (#11761760)
> Everyone in the USA has the right to bear arms, and a lot of them do. Result: huge murder rate.

The rate of murders committed by folks legally carrying guns is low; the rate of murders committed by Americans using weapons other than firearms is high. It's almost as though Americans in general are more violent than people in many other parts of the world.

Re:TSA's Head of Security 'Removed' from Office by blisterpeanuts on Tuesday May 24, 2016 @12:42PM (#11763049)
The murder rates, weapons used, and ethnicities of murderers and victims are well documented; see the FBI's own statistics (bjs.gov) for the details.

In summary, most law abiding gun owners in the U.S. don't commit homicide. Among whites, guns are most likely to be used for suicide.

Among blacks, guns are most likely to be used for homicide, and most of their victims are also black. In fact out of about 11,000 gun homicides per year, over 6000 are black-on-black shootings, mostly males 16-39, mostly urban ghetto gang members. Thus, less than 1% of the U.S. population commits over half the gun homicides (Hispanics have the next largest share).

If you control for the unfortunate murder rates in the ghetto areas, actually the per capita gun violence in the U.S. is almost the same as Canada and western Europe, maybe 1% higher but certainly not warranting the kind of stereotyping that inevitably accompanies any discussion about gun crime in America. Except for a few neighborhoods, most American cities today are as safe as, or actually safer than those of Europe.

You can argue with some validity that guns are too easy for gangs to obtain, but that's really separate from what we're talking about here which is lawful carry.

Re:TSA's Head of Security 'Removed' from Office by marcus_holmes on Tuesday May 24, 2016 @11:40AM (#11762444)
I had to re-read that twice before I got the meaning... I was thinking "hang on, so everyone carries guns but knife murders are up? what?" but what I think you're saying is that law-abiding people don't shoot people. Well, duh...

There's this really straightforward clear correlation between number of guns and amount of gun violence. Everyone else in the world gets this. Americans don't for some reason. I'm always curious why Americans don't get this. Y'all seem perfectly intelligent and reasonable otherwise.

Re:TSA's Head of Security 'Removed' from Office by zeveb on Tuesday May 24, 2016 @12:51PM (#11763159)
> what I think you're saying is that law-abiding people don't shoot people. Well, duh...

No, OP complains that in the U.S. 'everyone' can carry firearms legally (not actually true: felons, wife-beaters, citizens of New Jersey & similar folks are prohibited from carrying firearms) and thus we have a high murder rate. I pointed out that the issue is not the legal right, since the folks committing the murders are not, for the most part, legally armed.

> I'm always curious why Americans don't get this.

There's this really straightforward clear correlation between arms-bearing and liberty (viz.: an unarmed man is fundamentally not free). Americans seem to get this; many other folks don't for some reason. I'm always curious why not.

Re:TSA's Head of Security 'Removed' from Office by marcus_holmes on Tuesday May 24, 2016 @08:40PM (#11766802)
because I'm happy to give up my freedom to carry a gun in return for the knowledge that other people are similarly unarmed and therefore unable to shoot me.

It's what we do in a polite society; restrict our freedoms to respect the rights of others. I don't play music loudly on public transport for the same reason.

Re:TSA's Head of Security 'Removed' from Office by AnimalMuppet on Tuesday May 24, 2016 @08:52PM (#11766865)
How about the knowledge that other people know that you are unarmed, and therefore are free to attack you with fists or knives without fear of you shooting them?

This is not idle rhetoric. Britain has much lower gun violence statistics than the US, but higher total violence statistics.

Re:TSA's Head of Security 'Removed' from Office by dsfyu404ed on Tuesday May 24, 2016 @10:43AM (#11761954)
murders committed per legally owned firearm vs murders committed by illegally owned firearm, and probably the same for legal/illegal owners is another stat you should take into account...
Re:TSA's Head of Security 'Removed' from Office by smoothgrips on Tuesday May 24, 2016 @11:40AM (#11762442)
Your reasoning is not accurate. When you allow honest citizens to defend themselves, crime rates drop.

"Statistics show that in these states the crime rate fell (or did not rise) after the right-to-carry law became active (as of July, 2006)."

http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths/concealed-carry/

Re:TSA's Head of Security 'Removed' from Office by marcus_holmes on Tuesday May 24, 2016 @12:27PM (#11762889)
Listen to what you're saying here. Crime rates drop because people are scared that they might get shot. That's literally the implication of that statement.

You're saying that the best response to crime is for people to shoot each other. Not better policing or a better criminal justice system, but random gun battles.

Is it any wonder that the murder rate so much higher in the USA than in other similarly-developed countries?

"you pissed me off. That's practically a crime. I should shoot you now. Oh look I'm carrying a gun. bang"

Re:TSA's Head of Security 'Removed' from Office by smoothgrips on Tuesday May 24, 2016 @05:03PM (#11765467)
You're assuming that all honest people want to naturally kill other people when they're mad at them. If that were the case, crime rates would be astronomically high regardless if guns existed or not. If person A gets mad at person B and desires to kill them, they'll find a way to kill them. If they don't have a gun, then they'll use a knife, or a bat. Hell, they'll use their bare hands if they have to.

Honest people don't kill other people unless they feel their own lives are threatened. Criminals by definition do not follow the law, so by outlawing guns, only outlaws will have guns. What you effectively do is remove the gun from the honest person desiring to protect themselves, and arm the criminal with bad intent. The honest person is left defenseless.

Case in point: "Shooting incidents in London have almost doubled compared with the same period last year, prompting grave concerns that gun crime in some areas is out of control." [0]

Aren't guns illegal in England? How are people then getting shot, by guns, in a city where guns are illegal? Again, because criminals by definition don't follow the law and will find a way to get a gun regardless.

[0]: http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/nov/03/london-gun-crime-s...