News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Google's mapping cars discover hundreds of underground ga... by Animats on Thursday May 19, 2016 @02:15PM (#11732337)
That's useful. The mapping cars could carry some other useful sensors. Air quality is obvious. Less obvious is RF leakage from cable TV cable, which can interfere with other spectrum users. Cable companies used to have to check this every two years, but they lobbied to not have to check it.
Re:Google's mapping cars discover hundreds of underground ga... by kbenson on Thursday May 19, 2016 @05:01PM (#11733806)
Google's mapping cars are the metaphorical nanites in the bloodstream we've been reading about in science fiction for decades, applied to the planet. Mingling with our other cells, traveling our veins, arteries, reporting on the general health of and providing a more complete picture of the system overall.
Re:Google's mapping cars discover hundreds of underground ga... by dmckeon on Thursday May 19, 2016 @07:18PM (#11734610)
It would be nice if Google's streetview/mapping could be used like lint(1) to produce reports about conflicting or potentially confusing road signage and markings, so transport agencies could tune their presentation. This would all be moot after self-driving transport conquers the planet, but could be useful in the meantime.
Re:Google's mapping cars discover hundreds of underground ga... by clock_tower on Thursday May 19, 2016 @08:35PM (#11734909)
Even after self-driving cars conquer the planet, how do you think they'll figure out that they're in a construction zone, if not road signs?

More seriously, Street View as lint for road signs would be a superb idea! It's probably not something that anyone short of Google would have the processing power to do, but it would help a great deal.

(Assuming municipalities want help, that is. There are plenty of small towns that operate as speed traps, looking to shake down drivers by posting few speed-limit signs and many traffic cops. But lint-for-road-signs could reveal when an area has unresolved road-sign issues, and warn drivers to take another route.)

Re:Google's mapping cars discover hundreds of underground ga... by samstave on Thursday May 19, 2016 @07:15PM (#11734593)
Exactly, and it's sad they didn't add such additional sensors (aside from the wifi ones ;-) some time ago)
Re:Google's mapping cars discover hundreds of underground ga... by bigiain on Thursday May 19, 2016 @08:49PM (#11734953)
I, for one, am not keen on having nanites in my bloodstream supplied and controlled by the company who dropped from their code of conduct, and stopped using "Don't Be Evil" as their motto: http://time.com/4060575/alphabet-google-dont-be-evil/

(Top HN post in Feb 2021: "Alphabet Corp announces it's dropping support for GoogleBlood starting April 1st: A blogpost advises users to replace their blood with blood from alternative vendors and restore from backups as access to all blood functionality (not just the SmartBlood(tm) features) will cease at midnight Mar 31th. Advertisers with prepaid in-blood advertising bids will be pro-rata credited in their AdsInside account.")

Re:Google's mapping cars discover hundreds of underground ga... by magicalist on Thursday May 19, 2016 @08:55PM (#11734978)
> I, for one, am not keen on having nanites in my bloodcell supplied and controlled by the company who dropped from their code of conduct, and stopped using "Don't Be Evil" as their motto

I don't really know why you'd think that line would be the one thing holding them back from super villainy, but you'll be relieved to know that it's definitely still there:

https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct.html

Re:Google's mapping cars discover hundreds of underground ga... by kbenson on Thursday May 19, 2016 @09:02PM (#11735000)
I think perhaps you glossed over the part where I said "metaphorical".
Re:Google's mapping cars discover hundreds of underground ga... by bigiain on Thursday May 19, 2016 @09:33PM (#11735096)
Nah, I got that. I was just using your post as a setup for my GoogleBlood gag... It's probaby not as funny as I think it is… Sorry.
Re:Google's mapping cars discover hundreds of underground ga... by maxerickson on Thursday May 19, 2016 @09:10PM (#11735027)
Just use Google Takeout.
Re:Google's mapping cars discover hundreds of underground ga... by nekopa on Friday May 20, 2016 @12:57AM (#11735630)
Google Transfusion.
Re:Google's mapping cars discover hundreds of underground ga... by bigiain on Friday May 20, 2016 @02:26AM (#11735866)
Damn - I should have thought of that. Well played sir!
Re:Google's mapping cars discover hundreds of underground ga... by lvs on Thursday May 19, 2016 @10:58PM (#11735313)
It's only a matter of time before these streetview cars become autonomous. It's a safe bet that the self-driving project and maps teams already have a lot of interaction.
Re:Google's mapping cars discover hundreds of underground ga... by LeoPanthera on Thursday May 19, 2016 @02:40PM (#11732565)
I'm a Radio Ham, and the biggest source of RF noise is arcing power lines, and those powerline ethernet adapters some people use instead of wifi.

Arcing power lines can be tracked down with with a shortwave radio and reported, but the powerline adapters are a nightmare. They're suppposed to notch out the amateur radio bands but many do not, often swamping everything from 3 to 30MHz with noise.

Re:Google's mapping cars discover hundreds of underground ga... by jcrawfordor on Friday May 20, 2016 @01:25AM (#11735706)
Are HomePlug adapters really that large a source in practice, though? I'm an amateur operator and I've spent no small amount of time messing with HomePlug adapters and various bits of equipment to measure interference. Yes, they do produce very broad noise when the network is in use (although mine, and the internet suggests many others, intentionally filter output near amateur and other in-use HF bands).

That said, I think that these devices are actually quite rare in the real world - most people don't even seem to know what they are - and in my testing the noise dissipates very quickly as I leave my house, disappearing into the background of the city after only 20-30 feet.

I think that regulators have definitely dropped the ball on HomePlug, but I also don't think that it's that much of a problem, particularly given that it's been a commercial failure. Most of the ire towards HomePlug comes from people being upset about commercial-scale BPL installations, which actually have the potential to be a major problem over a large area.

In my house, my monitors actually account for more problems I experience than the HomePlug adapters do, in my everyday radio usage. And they aren't even cheap knockoffs, they're pricey name-brand models.

Re:Google's mapping cars discover hundreds of underground ga... by LeoPanthera on Friday May 20, 2016 @02:24AM (#11735859)
It depends what country you live in. In the UK, BT Broadband, the largest ISP, hands them out for free (or used to) so they're reasonably common.
Re:Google's mapping cars discover hundreds of underground ga... by street on Thursday May 19, 2016 @05:01PM (#11733800)
What about those adapters causes the issue? Is it the devices themselves emitting radiation? The cabling in a house?
Re:Google's mapping cars discover hundreds of underground ga... by upofadown on Thursday May 19, 2016 @07:06PM (#11734552)
The cabling radiates like crazy at those frequencies.

Interestingly enough, there is enough radiation that you don't really need an actual connection. Someone put one of the endpoints in a field with a generator and got a connection to another endpoint. In a sense power line adapters are just using radio over the air.

Sending data over a power line, even at low bit rates is very difficult to do reliably. So all the radiation is in a sense a feature in that it improves connectivity. Not so much a feature to those who have an actual licence to use those frequencies...

Re:Google's mapping cars discover hundreds of underground ga... by arve0 on Thursday May 19, 2016 @06:06PM (#11734244)
The powerline adapters works by transmitting signal over house wiring, and the wiring is effectively creating an antenna. So depending on which frequencies the adapter uses, will potentially radiate the same frequencies and the harmonics.
Re:Google's mapping cars discover hundreds of underground ga... by askldfhjkasfhd on Friday May 20, 2016 @01:44PM (#11739884)
I'm missing something, can you help me understand?

Wouldn't ethernet cables have the same issues? Does the increased power flowing through power lines somehow amplify the signal? Is that pretty much the definition of what a power amplifier in a radio does, add juice to a signal on an antenna so it gets broadcast further?

Re:Google's mapping cars discover hundreds of underground ga... by street on Friday May 20, 2016 @04:21PM (#11741158)
Ethernet cables are twisted to minimize this effect. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twisted_pair
Re:Google's mapping cars discover hundreds of underground ga... by askldfhjkasfhd on Friday May 20, 2016 @06:26PM (#11742021)
Whoa, cool, I never thought of that!

Does the amount of wattage going through the line effect how "loud" the interference is?

Re:Google's mapping cars discover hundreds of underground ga... by toomuchtodo on Thursday May 19, 2016 @06:04PM (#11734234)
Electrical wiring in your home used to pass data (as a side effect) acts as a large antenna/transmitter.
Re:Google's mapping cars discover hundreds of underground ga... by drdaeman on Thursday May 19, 2016 @07:11PM (#11734570)
Just to clarify, as someone seeing "instead of wifi" and "acts as a large antenna" from the parent comments may come to an incorrect assumption.

In PLC (power-line communication), wiring is not meant to act as antenna. All transceivers are wired. It's an undesirable, unintentional side effect of limited (to the extent of complete lack of) cable shielding - because, well, power lines are usually meant for different application than data transfers.

Re:Google's mapping cars discover hundreds of underground ga... by toomuchtodo on Thursday May 19, 2016 @07:14PM (#11734588)
Thanks for replying and pointing that out. I've corrected my comment.
Re:Google's mapping cars discover hundreds of underground ga... by peteretep on Friday May 20, 2016 @01:44AM (#11735749)
So am I basically broadcasting my data to anyone nearby with a receiver?
Re:Google's mapping cars discover hundreds of underground ga... by LeoPanthera on Friday May 20, 2016 @02:27AM (#11735868)
They're encrypted (or should be), so no.
Re:Google's mapping cars discover hundreds of underground ga... by tlrobinson on Thursday May 19, 2016 @05:46PM (#11734123)
"Grow light" ballasts and solar charge controllers are big ones too.
Re:Google's mapping cars discover hundreds of underground ga... by ChristianBundy on Thursday May 19, 2016 @04:53PM (#11733750)
Is there a reason they don't mess with UHF? Studying for my ham exam as we speak.
Re:Google's mapping cars discover hundreds of underground ga... by srl295 on Thursday May 19, 2016 @06:23PM (#11734343)
Because they don't operate in the UHF bands' frequencies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadband_over_power_lines#Imp... says "0-30MHZ" (that's the HF bands) "and sometimes as high as 80Mhz" (50Mhz would be 6-meters)
Re:Google's mapping cars discover hundreds of underground ga... by LeoPanthera on Thursday May 19, 2016 @06:19PM (#11734324)
UHF does not propagate through power lines, the frequency is too high.
Re:Google's mapping cars discover hundreds of underground ga... by stcredzero on Thursday May 19, 2016 @07:12PM (#11734572)
That's useful. The mapping cars could carry some other useful sensors. Air quality is obvious.

The refineries in the Houston area play all sorts of fast and loose with monitoring the chemicals they let go into the environment. If Google could measure stuff like this across wide geographical areas near the refineries, some good could come of this.

Re:Google's mapping cars discover hundreds of underground ga... by rconti on Thursday May 19, 2016 @10:28PM (#11735233)
Comcast actually shut off my Internet service mid-day when I wasn't home, because of this. I was lucky that I got an appointment the very next morning (I was on-call at the time) and the tech came out, found it was between my box and their equipment, climbed up a power pole, and immediately located a wire that had the insulation chewed through by a squirrel. They seemed very proactive about shutting my node off and then fixing the problem.

On the other hand, for all I know, the problem had been there for years.

Re:Google's mapping cars discover hundreds of underground ga... by tonyb on Thursday May 19, 2016 @02:46PM (#11732634)
Many cable TV providers put leakage detection equipment on their trucks. RF leaks are also a point of noise ingress on the cable plant so they want to fix it to improve the cable plant.