News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:When Websites Won’t Take No for an Answer by golemotron on Saturday May 14, 2016 @12:23PM (#11696779)
> “If the company benefits more than the consumer, I would call it ‘evil design,’” said Mr. Nodder, who wrote a book on the topic called “Evil by Design.”

That is stunningly poor reasoning. It doesn't matter whether a company benefits more than you do as long as you are not harmed. Not all games are zero-sum. Thinking you should be getting more or equal to the other party is not harm, it's envy.

Re:When Websites Won’t Take No for an Answer by exodust on Saturday May 14, 2016 @12:58PM (#11696989)
I would say it does matter if a company benefits more than I do, but makes out like it doesn't. Any fair transaction should surely balance? In the end, nobody likes being deceived or presented with false information, even happy customers.
Re:When Websites Won’t Take No for an Answer by 13of40 on Saturday May 14, 2016 @01:32PM (#11697164)
> Any fair transaction should surely balance?

I don't think that's true, because a company could have the means to do something profitably that an individual couldn't. For example, I just changed the toner cartridges on my printer, and HP provided UPS stickers so I can send the old ones back for "recycling", which is obviously just them filling them back up and selling them to someone else. Let's assume they just made $20 on the deal. That doesn't mean I'd have $20 if I'd kept them, because to me, lacking a factory to refurbish them, they're just garbage. Same goes for all of that personal information Google and Facebook make money on -- you can't go down to the pawn shop and sell your own information, because it only matters in bulk.

Re:When Websites Won’t Take No for an Answer by xg15 on Saturday May 14, 2016 @03:12PM (#11697607)
Except it's not always easy to see if you're actually harmed or not. In the toner case, the UPS sticker is also a (very gentle) nudge away from trying to refill the cartridge yourself using a cheaper service.

As for the personal information, there is an entertaining talk[1] by Pinboard's Maciej Cegłowski about how we can't even know if collected personal information will at some point come back to hurt you or not.

[1] http://idlewords.com/talks/haunted_by_data.htm

Re:When Websites Won’t Take No for an Answer by golemotron on Saturday May 14, 2016 @01:36PM (#11697181)
So not revealing your upside is deception?
Re:When Websites Won’t Take No for an Answer by exodust on Sunday May 15, 2016 @12:34PM (#11701539)
Well... yes, it is!

Nothing like transparency to keep me as a loyal customer.

Re:When Websites Won’t Take No for an Answer by cortesoft on Saturday May 14, 2016 @03:50PM (#11697748)
Yeah, if the situation is pareto-superior, then who cares if the company benefits more?