Understanding the bin, sbin, usr/bin , usr/sbin split (2010)

Re:Understanding the bin, sbin, usr/bin , usr/sbin split (2010) by m45t3r on Friday May 06, 2016 @08:36PM (#11647747)

For all people that think this is still a issue: it is not:

* Arch Linux: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_filesystem_hierarc...

* Fedora: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/UsrMove

* Debian: https://wiki.debian.org/UsrMerge

* Ubuntu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Specs/Quantal/UsrMer...

And this is true for quite a long time. I think the last distro that did /usr merge is Debian and this is already 3 years ago. So I find surprising that people still thinks that this is a issue.

The only thing that remains is the difference between bin and sbin that Fedora/Ubuntu/Debian still maintain (Arch Linux simply merged everything).

P.S.: of course, there should be still distros that use a split /bin /usr/bin, /lib and /usr/lib, etc. OpenWRT is one of them. However I think the major distros already migrated.

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Re:Understanding the bin, sbin, usr/bin , usr/sbin split (2010) by perfunctory on Saturday May 07, 2016 @09:49AM (#11649573)

Excuse me my naivety but I don't really understand what you mean by "This is not an issue and hasn't been for quite a long time". When I do ls / on any of my machines I still see /bin /usr/bin and all the rest.

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Re:Understanding the bin, sbin, usr/bin , usr/sbin split (2010) by gqg on Saturday May 07, 2016 @10:07AM (#11649635)

They are all symlinked - just different names for exactly the same directory in the file system. If you compare the contents, you will find they are identical.

Edit: Nevermind, I am wrong :)

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Re:Understanding the bin, sbin, usr/bin , usr/sbin split (2010) by tremon on Saturday May 07, 2016 @10:09AM (#11649646)

  $ ls -1 /bin | wc -l
  127
  $ ls -1 /usr/bin | wc -l
  2271

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Re:Understanding the bin, sbin, usr/bin , usr/sbin split (2010) by psydk on Saturday May 07, 2016 @03:29AM (#11648737)

The Ubuntu document is from 2012 and the merge is not done on 16.04. How can we know if the change is still planned, and when? Is there a roadmap somewhere?

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Re:Understanding the bin, sbin, usr/bin , usr/sbin split (2010) by adwf on Friday May 06, 2016 @09:36PM (#11647909)

Arch still occasionally has some packages installed to /opt. Annoying as hell, but they expect to be there for some reason. Android-studio was the latest unexpected surprise for me.

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Re:Understanding the bin, sbin, usr/bin , usr/sbin split (2010) by johnny22 on Friday May 06, 2016 @11:35PM (#11648277)

I've seen distros choose /opt for software not built by the maintainers, but simply repackaged in binary form. This would include software like oracle/sun java.

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Re:Understanding the bin, sbin, usr/bin , usr/sbin split (2010) by GauntletWizard on Friday May 06, 2016 @09:46PM (#11647942)

Once upon a time, I read the LSB[1] filesystem hierarchy, of which the only thing I consider useful was that non-distro-provided third party software (i.e. anything you'd buy on a disk and install) should live in opt. It didn't make a huge deal of sense then and it still doesn't now, but it sorta provides a way to know which directories can safely be rm -rf'd.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Standard_Base

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Re:Understanding the bin, sbin, usr/bin , usr/sbin split (2010) by bretthoerner on Saturday May 07, 2016 @08:52AM (#11649385)

fwiw that's from AUR, not Arch official.

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Re:Understanding the bin, sbin, usr/bin , usr/sbin split (2010) by vbernat on Saturday May 07, 2016 @02:16AM (#11648595)

Debian only enforced the fact that if there is a /usr partition, it should be mounted by the initramfs. Moreover, the advanced partition scheme in debian-installer doesn't propose a separate /usr anymore. /usr can still be a separate partition and the split between /usr and /usr/bin still exists unless you install the usrmerge package.

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Re:Understanding the bin, sbin, usr/bin , usr/sbin split (2010) by Esau on Friday May 06, 2016 @08:53PM (#11647798)

"Note that Arch follows the systemd FHS convention of symlinking"

The Systemd convention? What the fuck? Does Systemd have to touch everything??

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Re:Understanding the bin, sbin, usr/bin , usr/sbin split (2010) by Jasper_ on Friday May 06, 2016 @11:39PM (#11648284)

The systemd maintainers were one of the first ones to put together a technical proposal and do a lot of the implementation work for the UsrMerge, in a way that was reusable across distros.

systemd itself does not depend on being on a UsrMerge'd system, and otherwise, the proposal does not have anything to do with systemd.

From https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/TheCaseFor...

"Note that this page discusses a topic that is actually independent of systemd."

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Re:Understanding the bin, sbin, usr/bin , usr/sbin split (2010) by JdeBP on Saturday May 07, 2016 @02:30AM (#11648625)

You are quoting 2013 doco. systemd has (again) changed since then.

As of 2016, the position is that whilst there is still code in some of the program to handle a split /usr, a significant part of the system (in particular Plug and Play device management) now references /usr and depends from it, to the extent that it is already a requirement that /usr be always present: i.e. that it either be on the root volume or be mounted by /init (on the initramfs) before it invokes systemd.

* https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2016-Fe...

Lennart Poettering is indeed now pushing for systemd to impose a similar requirement for /var .

* https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2016-Fe...

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Re:Understanding the bin, sbin, usr/bin , usr/sbin split (2010) by Jasper_ on Saturday May 07, 2016 @03:18AM (#11648721)

Uh, I don't see how this is related to UsrMerge? You can still have separate /usr/bin and /bin directories, you just need to make sure /usr is mounted and accessible during boot. Requiring /usr be available during boot has long been the case for Linux, even before systemd came along.

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Re:Understanding the bin, sbin, usr/bin , usr/sbin split (2010) by spc476 on Saturday May 07, 2016 @03:21AM (#11648726)

So, as Linus controls the kernel, Lennart wants to control userspace?

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Re:Understanding the bin, sbin, usr/bin , usr/sbin split (2010) by digi_owl on Saturday May 07, 2016 @03:38AM (#11648751)

I'm not sure Torvalds care about control either way, he just wants to build a kernel to be proud off.

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Re:Understanding the bin, sbin, usr/bin , usr/sbin split (2010) by arca_vorago on Saturday May 07, 2016 @09:11AM (#11649448)

I have a sneaking suspicion one day systemd is going to try to replace the gnu in gnu/linux.

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Re:Understanding the bin, sbin, usr/bin , usr/sbin split (2010) by digi_owl on Sunday May 08, 2016 @04:56AM (#11653277)

Why, when they can grab the reins?

Iirc, glibc used to be maintained by a RH guy until he got on so many people's wrong side there was fork made that ran for a number of years until the original was merged into it and the fork renamed.

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Re:Understanding the bin, sbin, usr/bin , usr/sbin split (2010) by digi_owl on Saturday May 07, 2016 @07:27AM (#11649179)

That one curious definiton of "reusable"...

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Re:Understanding the bin, sbin, usr/bin , usr/sbin split (2010) by dsfyu404ed on Friday May 06, 2016 @09:20PM (#11647868)

Systemd walks into a bar, shoots the owner, proclaims it is the new owner, turns the bar into a casino, adds a hotel, a grocery store and an init system.

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Re:Understanding the bin, sbin, usr/bin , usr/sbin split (2010) by Hello71 on Friday May 06, 2016 @10:30PM (#11648085)

systemd opens a new bar right next to the most popular bar in town, becomes far more popular (possibly due to better advertising), people complain that their beer tastes worse, and when other people tell them to just go to the original bar, they complain that all their friends are at the new bar.

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Re:Understanding the bin, sbin, usr/bin , usr/sbin split (2010) by digi_owl on Saturday May 07, 2016 @03:41AM (#11648756)

Also closes the doors on the auto shop next door. Proclaiming you can either go through the bar to get to it, or climb over the barbed wire fence out back to get in.

Others instead use abandoned tools from said auto shop to set up a new one across the road, and get daily ridiculed by the systemd patrons for it.

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Re:Understanding the bin, sbin, usr/bin , usr/sbin split (2010) by cyphar on Saturday May 07, 2016 @12:21AM (#11648380)

systemd stopped selling just beer a long time ago. It now sells books, used cars, cement mix and cheap Chinese take away.

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Re:Understanding the bin, sbin, usr/bin , usr/sbin split (2010) by digi_owl on Saturday May 07, 2016 @07:26AM (#11649177)

Systemd has basically become the enforcement arm of Freedesktop, that in turn is a cover for RH/Fedora running the Linux user space show.

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Re:Understanding the bin, sbin, usr/bin , usr/sbin split (2010) by mariuolo on Saturday May 07, 2016 @06:35AM (#11649076)

> And this is true for quite a long time. I think the last distro that did /usr merge is Debian and this is already 3 years ago. So I find surprising that people still thinks that this is a issue.

It hasn't happened on openSUSE yet:/

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Re:Understanding the bin, sbin, usr/bin , usr/sbin split (2010) by JdeBP on Saturday May 07, 2016 @01:50AM (#11648552)

See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11626765 for two people recently discussing the actualities of this.

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