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Re:The Y Combinator Experience by pvg on Wednesday March 03, 2010 @03:01AM (#1163658)
Oh please. It's a big chunk of equity. It's not a bargain and nobody is ripping pg off. It's great that pg is helping startups on terms that both he and the startups that accept the investment understand. Portraying it as charity or martyrdom is absurd, though. YC themselves don't.
Re:The Y Combinator Experience by coryl on Wednesday March 03, 2010 @03:10AM (#1163669)
At 6% for $17k, a two founder startup is valued at $283,000 by YC. Thats a huge over valuation. Ideas aren't worth a quarter million dollars on paper.

It is NOT a big chunk of equity for startups. If you think it is, you haven't failed enough times to know better. Cause when you fail, you get to keep 100% of nothing.

Re:The Y Combinator Experience by pvg on Wednesday March 03, 2010 @03:18AM (#1163680)
It's a big chunk of equity for the money. Now, you can argue YC invests in very early stage, very high risk companies and the big chunk of equity is warranted and that's fair enough. It's still a big chunk of equity. How much equity did Andy Bechtolsheim get for his famous $100k cheque to the Google founders?
Re:The Y Combinator Experience by coryl on Wednesday March 03, 2010 @03:31AM (#1163696)
Friend, hindsight is always 20/20. We don't know for a fact whether or not Google would be worth billions if they didn't get angel investing, so that example is moot.

But we do know the rate at which startups fail. We see that everyday. If you've been involved in startups, you've experienced it. The problem is, your looking at equity as a piece of the pie, trying to keep as much pie to yourself as possible. The relative size of your slice doesn't matter. Its the absolute size of the pie that matters.

Re:The Y Combinator Experience by pvg on Wednesday March 03, 2010 @03:55AM (#1163721)
It's a big chunk of equity for the money. That was the point. Either dispute it by facts or don't. But don't weasel around calling me friend, pal.
Re:The Y Combinator Experience by coryl on Wednesday March 03, 2010 @04:18AM (#1163755)
Woah now. Okay, I apologize for calling you "friend".

Fact is, we all have different risk tolerances. I can tell you to play your pocket aces aggressively, but if you want to slow play them, thats up to you.

I did my best to rationalize with you why the numbers don't matter in the big picture. The best question to ask yourself is: can I create more value than the value of the stake that I give up? If the answers yes, then give up the stake, whatever the number. Most of us believe we'll get at least equal value, and that giving up 5%-10% is worth it. Thats why the numbers mean nothing to us, we don't equate 5% to being a lot because we know our new 95% will be worth more than the previous 100%.

Re:The Y Combinator Experience by tolmasky on Wednesday March 03, 2010 @03:09AM (#1163668)
I never said it was charity, I simply said that in my opinion the terms are better for the founders. I don't think there's a single YC founder that would disagree with me. And I'm sure there isn't a single successful YC founder that would disagree with me (which is the theoretical point where the equity would come back to bite you).

If your company is already doing amazing or you're already some sort of super hot shot, then of course its not a good deal. Jeff Bezos does not need to go through the YC program. But I don't see a bunch of Balmers and Bezos' complaining about the YC terms, I see a bunch of people that need precisely what YC provides.

Re:The Y Combinator Experience by pvg on Wednesday March 03, 2010 @03:23AM (#1163687)
I simply said that in my opinion the terms are better for the founders

Right, I simply said that opinion is absurd and flies in the face of the very idea of running a business like YC. And it is a business, right, we agree on that?

And I'm sure there isn't a single successful YC founder that would disagree

Why on earth would a successful YC founder disagree? They've been successful. This is the definition of selection bias.

Re:The Y Combinator Experience by tolmasky on Wednesday March 03, 2010 @03:38AM (#1163704)
Why on earth would a successful YC founder disagree? They've been successful. This is the definition of selection bias.

Wow. I can't believe I have to explain this.

As I already explained in my previous post, this is simply the only truly useful metric, not selection bias. People care about equity after they succeed, not when they fail. No one sits around crying that they wished they had a larger percentage of nothing. In fact, you know what, I bet pg would be willing to make an agreement with you that after you officially close your company he'll gladly give you that 5-10% back, that way you'll be happy either way.

Go and ask any YC founder who is currently successful, whether its chugging along fine or had any form of exit, I don't think you'll find any of them worrying about those percentage points. The ones who've failed clearly don't care and certainly don't ridiculously blame their failure on YC taking too much of their company. Better yet, they're making use of those same connections and opportunities on the next startup they're working on, and for free this time.

Re:The Y Combinator Experience by pvg on Wednesday March 03, 2010 @04:06AM (#1163738)
Wow. I can't believe I have to explain this.

You do, because it's silly. By the same token go and ask any founder who did not take YC funding and was successful. People care about equity well before they succeed. Talk to any investor.

Go and ask any YC founder who is currently successful

Explain to me, again, how this is not selection bias?