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Re:WebExtensions in Firefox 48 by nwah1 on Friday April 29, 2016 @11:25PM (#11600190)
You have a misunderstanding of what is going on. Hello, for instance, is not some sort of project is draining resources and/or bloating firefox. It is essentially a WebRTC demonstration. Since WebRTC is a technology that needs to be implemented anyways, and is worth promoting, Hello becomes very interesting.

It is basically just a little bit of javascript that runs on top of all the WebRTC code that they'd have to build anyways.

Trying to do cross-platform screensharing, for instance, can be quite a hassle, but this will allow it to be done all without any sort of plugins, or any need for TeamViewer, GotoMeeting, etc.

And as for XUL and XPCOM, they've already been moving away from it internally for years. It is horrible. Talk about bloat and security problems. And they already are needing to rewrite their APIs for things like Electrolysis, which I assume we want. So why not actually do a good job with the rewrite?

The ultimate goal is to have the UI based on web standards (browser.html). This will reduce bloat and reduce the attack surface. And the UI will only get more customizable as a result.

Re:WebExtensions in Firefox 48 by knight17 on Saturday April 30, 2016 @12:26AM (#11600347)
The capability of addons are being gutted in the name of progress. The new trend towards addons as a toolbar button started by Google Chrome has been disastrous. Extensions like Vimperator/Pentadactyl, that makes deep changes to the way Firefox operate would not be possible under the new system. I think they don't know who their ideal users are any more.

It feels like Mozilla has no imagination left. In the browser space I can see Chrome following its ideals and moving ahead. Recently Vivaldi has been making great strides with original thinking on what a browser should be. Oh, and Mozilla? We'll ape Chrome here and there and loose our identity and alienate our users. If I want Chrome, I would use it myself, I don't want bits and pieces of Chrome in something I've been using long before Chrome came.

Copy features and implement them like how Android and iOS copy each other; they keep their core identity intact with the changes and features adopted.

It is sad. Just look at what Microsoft has been doing to get an addon community like Firefox, and look at Mozilla throwing away all their working addons and the community to the streets.

Re:WebExtensions in Firefox 48 by callahad on Saturday April 30, 2016 @01:09AM (#11600466)
> Extensions like Vimperator/Pentadactyl, that makes deep changes to the way Firefox operate would not be possible under the new system.

You're mistaken. Vimperator is explicitly on our list of add-on functionality to support at https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebExtensions#Additional_APIs, and it has been there since the very early days of the WebExtensions project.

Will WebExtensions v1 be ready to handle Vimperator? Absolutely not. But we'll almost assuredly get there before we remove the existing APIs that those add-ons rely on.

Re:WebExtensions in Firefox 48 by regecks on Saturday April 30, 2016 @01:48AM (#11600552)
That's great to hear. I can't live without Vimperator, and it's really good to see that there's a decent plan in place to keep it (or close substitute) alive.
Re:WebExtensions in Firefox 48 by knight17 on Saturday April 30, 2016 @07:41AM (#11601332)
I may be wrong on the specific case of Pentadactyl. But as a user I am happy to be wrong in this case. I love that extension

However, there are many extensions that won't be possible in the new extension environment and they will die a silent death as they don't have cheerleaders who can force Mozilla to accommodate them in the new webextension plans; I know one or two such extensions myself (don't use them personally, so I may be wrong, may be not). This forced euthanasia of extensions make FF ecosystem poorer, and FF just another Chrome wannabe.

The point is, Mozilla should show the traits of leader; criticism still has merit whether Vimperator work or not.

Re:WebExtensions in Firefox 48 by callahad on Saturday April 30, 2016 @04:47PM (#11603492)
> die a silent death as they don't have cheerleaders [...] I know one or two such extensions myself

Then name them! It is literally my job to help developers interface with and be heard within Mozilla.

Re:WebExtensions in Firefox 48 by the8472 on Saturday April 30, 2016 @05:29PM (#11603692)
Don't you understand that the need to speak before our mozilla king to be heard is already a problem, no matter how benevolent the king is we still become supplicants before him. And not everyone will be willing to ask, so things die silently.

And then there also is the issue that mozilla has limited resources. So even if you wanted to help you can't help everyone.

This does not exist in the old extension ecosystem or in regular software development. You don't have to beg anyone to please spend time a particular usecase.

It may be painful to get things working yourself, but at least it's an option you have.

Here's an example of users helping each other without needing to petition for support from orbital HQ: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/36927096/firefox-command-...

Re:WebExtensions in Firefox 48 by ashitlerferad on Monday May 02, 2016 @01:38AM (#11609380)
Will the WebExtensions API be powerful enough to write a "browser firewall"? Essentially give users automatic/manual control over about every process run by the browser.
Re:WebExtensions in Firefox 48 by callahad on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @10:33AM (#11621022)
I don't think we're exposing native process semantics to WebExtensions, but the webRequest API can intercept and modify any request initiated by web content.

If this use case is important to you, please file a bug explaining your needs and/or fill out the survey at https://wiki.mozilla.org/Add-ons/Contribute#Improve_add-ons_....

Re:WebExtensions in Firefox 48 by the8472 on Saturday April 30, 2016 @01:48PM (#11602662)
> on our list of add-on functionality to support

But that's the problem. Things not "on your list" will simply not be possible. Right now an addon - with enough grease - can do anything that C code in the browser itself could.

In other words, the new API will cause a non-zero amount of existing addon features to cease existing and currently-possible future addons from never coming into existence.

Re:WebExtensions in Firefox 48 by callahad on Saturday April 30, 2016 @04:44PM (#11603478)
> Right now an addon - with enough grease - can do anything that C code in the browser itself could.

Yes, and that is a bug that has blocked enormous improvements in Firefox's speed, stability, security, and fundamental architecture for years. This is going to be a painful transition, but I'm confident that the cure is better than the disease, and that the long-term cost to extensibility will be less than predicted.

Maybe I'm wrong, but this feels similar to how the Web itself lost many capabilities and existing projects with the move away from native plugins. We no longer have Java or Flash to circumvent limitations in the Web platform, but in my experience, the Web managed to sufficiently narrow that gap so that I don't miss them at all. I certainly wouldn't turn back the clock, given the chance.

Re:WebExtensions in Firefox 48 by the8472 on Saturday April 30, 2016 @05:19PM (#11603647)
The web only has become less interoperable with native operating system facilities, not more.

You can't even grant a website access to a specific directory. like "myimages/flickr.com" or whatever.

Stdio. It's so fundamental. And the web can't do it. After so many years. Addons can do that. But not webextensions.

So what you call a bug that needs to be removed I call basic interoperability.

Re:WebExtensions in Firefox 48 by kuschku on Saturday April 30, 2016 @05:49AM (#11601088)
Will you get all the features Vivaldi has (like customizing everything via settings and addons) before you remove XUL?
Re:WebExtensions in Firefox 48 by MoSal on Saturday April 30, 2016 @08:57AM (#11601493)
If all you intend to provide in that regard is "Better keyboard shortcut support". Then no, Vimperator functionality will not be supported.
Re:WebExtensions in Firefox 48 by nathancahill on Friday April 29, 2016 @11:39PM (#11600227)
> the UI will only get more customizable as a result.

It's not the UI, it's the APIs behind powerful addons like Firebug that made Firefox the browser that it is. Those powerful APIs are going, going, gone.

Re:WebExtensions in Firefox 48 by clouddrover on Saturday April 30, 2016 @12:21AM (#11600335)
Firebug 3 integrates with Firefox's native DevTools so you'll still have Firebug (or you can just use Firefox's DevTools without Firebug if you want): https://hacks.mozilla.org/2015/10/firebug-devtools-integrati...
Re:WebExtensions in Firefox 48 by nathancahill on Saturday April 30, 2016 @12:30AM (#11600367)
Firebug isn't what's at stake here. It's the level of API access to browser internals that allowed things like Firebug to be built.
Re:WebExtensions in Firefox 48 by clouddrover on Saturday April 30, 2016 @12:49AM (#11600419)
I don't think you need to be worried. If some feature is missing from the new API then get involved with the development and get the feature added. That's what add-on authors are doing (see my other comment).
Re:WebExtensions in Firefox 48 by CelticGod on Monday May 02, 2016 @06:34AM (#11610370)
Mozilla is a serious disappointment. Implementing all what Chrome has and removing all what Firefox has. Including built inside customization features which are available only these days over add-ons.

Pretty sure it is again then the users job to create the customization features they want.

I can not often say it enough much i despise Mozilla these days.