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Re:iPhone Sales Drop, and Apple’s 13-Year Surge Ebbs by noir-york on Tuesday April 26, 2016 @05:55PM (#11576045)
The stone age didn't end because we ran out of stones. Isn't google still not a search company, but its moved past its 'search' era and now its focus on other things. Apple will always sell hardware, but it needs to orient to its next phase of growth, and that ain't hardware.
Re:iPhone Sales Drop, and Apple’s 13-Year Surge Ebbs by zepto on Tuesday April 26, 2016 @06:53PM (#11576431)
Google hasn't moved past anything - almost all of its money comes from search still. Everything else is just 'bets' none of which have paid off.

Apple makes bets too - they just aren't public.

Re:iPhone Sales Drop, and Apple’s 13-Year Surge Ebbs by studentrob on Tuesday April 26, 2016 @10:15PM (#11577386)
> Google hasn't moved past anything

Yeah. This doesn't seem so bad to me. Search has improved tremendously over the years. Things are easier to find. Google is making more content discoverable.

Advertising is arguably the biggest revenue generator for internet tools. Everyone can use things that are free, and companies want to reach everyone. So long as Google is the most frequently visited site in the world, they remain in control of the biggest revenue stream.

One could argue Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat etc. are making up ground by giving people access to more readers than the likes of Blogger or WordPress. These isolated worlds feel a little like AOL's heydays to me. There ought to be an easy way to publish somewhere, then take your content and network and move to another service if you want. At the moment, it's possible but not easy.

I think anyone who makes such an open social network, with easily exportable contacts and content, would find a lot of success. But it's a really hard problem to solve and I understand why this doesn't exist yet.

Re:iPhone Sales Drop, and Apple’s 13-Year Surge Ebbs by zepto on Wednesday April 27, 2016 @11:11AM (#11581079)
It seems to me that this idea of portability is relevant to almost nobody

Most regular people I know enjoy Facebook, and are accustomed to how it works.

I'm curious about where you see the demand?

Re:iPhone Sales Drop, and Apple’s 13-Year Surge Ebbs by studentrob on Wednesday April 27, 2016 @11:30AM (#11581275)
> Most regular people I know enjoy Facebook

I enjoy Facebook. I just see opportunity for something next-generation. Also, I disagree with the notion that Facebook will be fine forever as the dominant player in social networking. They are better off with more competition. Gates and Jobs are quoted saying that Microsoft and Apple's existence helped each other become better companies [1] [2], and helped get more useful computers into people's homes and businesses faster.

Gmail offers an export feature of its emails and contacts in formats that are importable by other tools.

Facebook could do this for your friends list. They don't because they've never had competition that provides such a feature.

When internet explorer became free for everyone, Netscape was forced to become free for everyone.

> I'm curious about where you see the demand?

Demand doesn't make or break a new product. There wasn't demand for cars or iPods before they came out.

That's the best I can explain it. If you don't agree that's fine.

[1] https://youtu.be/wvhW8cp15tk?t=23m42s

[2] https://youtu.be/wvhW8cp15tk?t=1h8m25s

Re:iPhone Sales Drop, and Apple’s 13-Year Surge Ebbs by zepto on Wednesday April 27, 2016 @04:32PM (#11584279)
I don't agree, but I am open to understanding more.

I liked your examples of cars or iPods. I agree that as specific solutions there was not demand before the existed, however there was clearly demand for personal transportation and portable music players.

What is the equivalent for portability?

Re:iPhone Sales Drop, and Apple’s 13-Year Surge Ebbs by studentrob on Wednesday April 27, 2016 @09:20PM (#11585971)
> however there was clearly demand for personal transportation and portable music players.

I think that makes my point further. There is demand for social networks

I'll concede that portability may or may not be the next big thing for social networks. Let's speak more generally.

People want better social networks. They want to connect with friends more easily. To be honest, my Facebook feed is improving bit by bit, but it's still not as good or interesting as it could be. My perception is that Facebook is 100% focused on improving the feed, but without competition, we'll never have anyone thinking outside the Facebook box. Mark has the final say on certain strategies, and I think his vision is great, but his company would be even greater if there were another Mark.

Jobs and Gates fed off each other. Their efforts to market computers to the world helped each other's businesses grow faster than they would've grown alone. By borrowing each other's ideas, we got better products. And their employees were constantly on their toes. Google and Facebook are amazing companies and provide more services to their employees today than Apple and MS in the 90s.

However, the same energy isn't there to improve their core products. Google could be much better at machine translation across all languages, which is part of search, for example. In the future, I think they will be. Without another real competitor, they're free to work on whatever side projects please their employees. The core products miss out on advancements that may otherwise arrive sooner.

All of this is fine and I think tech will thrive regardless. The reason I write all that is I believe in churning up ideas from the bottom that might not otherwise find support. I don't think I'm the only one with this idea.

Re:iPhone Sales Drop, and Apple’s 13-Year Surge Ebbs by zepto on Thursday April 28, 2016 @11:38AM (#11589653)
Erm, it seems as though you are explaining why competition is good. Is there somethings else that I'm missing?
Re:iPhone Sales Drop, and Apple’s 13-Year Surge Ebbs by studentrob on Thursday April 28, 2016 @06:20PM (#11592313)
I think most people know competition is good for the consumer. I'm saying, competition is also good for the companies themselves. Often in tech you see one company, its employees, or its users lambasting the competition. It is self defeating to wish away all your competition. It is a rare company who can continue to innovate in the face of having no competition. Right now FB doesn't have much competition in the US for its core product -- helping people connect with their friends

Perhaps this is just a recent revelation for me, and talking about it helps form my thoughts. And maybe I'm wrong about FB. I don't use Snapchat or Instagram etc. My sense is that FB is far ahead.

Re:iPhone Sales Drop, and Apple’s 13-Year Surge Ebbs by zepto on Friday April 29, 2016 @01:41PM (#11597342)
I don't think everyone realizes the benefits of competition for the companies but many of us do, a and it wasn't clear that this was really the point you were making.

I sometimes like to think of it as not so much a benefit of competition as a risk for monopoly holders.

Re:iPhone Sales Drop, and Apple’s 13-Year Surge Ebbs by studentrob on Friday April 29, 2016 @08:05PM (#11599571)
> I sometimes like to think of it as not so much a benefit of competition as a risk for monopoly holders.

For sure. It is also a risk for state-favored companies that hold monopolies inside authoritarian regimes. Their growth will probably be limited to their own country. Without local competition, it may be difficult to make the leap to global competitiveness. This is very theoretical as I have no experience. But I think you can draw some parallels to the way politicians cut their teeth. They begin at the local level and work their way up.

Re:iPhone Sales Drop, and Apple’s 13-Year Surge Ebbs by allisthemoist on Tuesday April 26, 2016 @06:25PM (#11576255)
As a company that has a huge grip on higher end hardware sales, I definitely think they will stay in the space. That being said, product innovation certainly needs to happen for them to retain their dominance.
Re:iPhone Sales Drop, and Apple’s 13-Year Surge Ebbs by bduerst on Tuesday April 26, 2016 @07:19PM (#11576564)
Depends. They're the quality leader of the hardware market, but that means they'll need to be present in new hardware markets.

This includes VR/AR, less someone else gets to the the brand reputation throne first (like HTC or Microsoft).

Re:iPhone Sales Drop, and Apple’s 13-Year Surge Ebbs by studentrob on Tuesday April 26, 2016 @09:54PM (#11577289)
> This includes VR/AR, less someone else gets to the the brand reputation throne first (like HTC or Microsoft).

I think HTC's got it for at least a year. It may continue longer. They'd need to do something wrong to lose the lead. MS Hololens is too expensive at the moment to get much reach. And I could make many comments about how Oculus/FB messed up a bit recently. However, I think everyone, including HTC, hopes that Oculus finds its stride again. More competition is better for everyone and will advance VR tech and the market reach faster. Gates and Jobs are on record saying Microsoft, Apple, and the world wouldn't have been as good without each other.

Re:iPhone Sales Drop, and Apple’s 13-Year Surge Ebbs by bduerst on Wednesday April 27, 2016 @12:03PM (#11581646)
Don't you think you're projecting? It's easy to romance competition, but I seriously doubt HTC hopes the OR finds it's feet. Just as its easy for Gates and Jobs to reminisce after the PC boom after the dust has settled, I doubt they were so romantic during.
Re:iPhone Sales Drop, and Apple’s 13-Year Surge Ebbs by studentrob on Wednesday April 27, 2016 @10:27PM (#11586215)
> Don't you think you're projecting? It's easy to romance competition, but I seriously doubt HTC hopes the OR finds it's feet.

Sure, this is my opinion on the internet. I've no idea if the HTC and Facebook CEOs feel the same way about competition helping each other as Jobs [1] and Gates [2] said. But I imagine those at the top of massive organizations know a few things about being successful that might not be obvious to the rest of us. What Jobs and Gates said does ring true about their history.

Jobs explicitly pointed out that there was a toxic anti-Microsoft attitude at Apple when he returned, and getting rid of that was critical to their success [1].

> Just as its easy for Gates and Jobs to reminisce after the PC boom after the dust has settled, I doubt they were so romantic during.

That's also discussed in the Jobs/Gates interview. There were good and bad times, and historically speaking, they were not always so against each other. MS invested in Apple several times, and Apple took some risk partnering with them. Jobs pointed out Apple (really, himself) wasn't good at partnering with people, but Gates was, and he admired that [3].

[1] https://youtu.be/wvhW8cp15tk?t=23m42s

[2] https://youtu.be/wvhW8cp15tk?t=1h8m25s

[3] https://youtu.be/wvhW8cp15tk?t=1h24m6s

Re:iPhone Sales Drop, and Apple’s 13-Year Surge Ebbs by brisance on Wednesday April 27, 2016 @01:59AM (#11578113)
You know what is Apple's #2 source of revenue? Services, which was $6 billion. This was more than Facebook's Q1 revenue.
Re:iPhone Sales Drop, and Apple’s 13-Year Surge Ebbs by rocky1138 on Tuesday April 26, 2016 @06:12PM (#11576163)
It may be hardware, but might not be computers, phones, and tablets.
Re:iPhone Sales Drop, and Apple’s 13-Year Surge Ebbs by noir-york on Tuesday April 26, 2016 @06:23PM (#11576239)
Apple is amazing when it puts its mind to hardware for which there is an "ideal" Form; the macbook is the "perfect" form for a laptop, the iPhone is the "perfect" form for a smartphone.

Take watches however, there is no one perfect form - different needs demand different forms. Or cars, or fridges or planes.

So yes it may not be computers, phones or tablets, but the number of multi-billion dollar aspirational hardware products that Apple will be good at is not by any means a large number.

Re:iPhone Sales Drop, and Apple’s 13-Year Surge Ebbs by sangnoir on Wednesday April 27, 2016 @05:32AM (#11578910)
> the iPhone is the "perfect" form for a smartphone

Heh, I remember time when a 4-inch screen was declared was the "perfect" size for a phone (with intentionally malformed Photoshopped thumb-reachability evidence to buttress the argument) and "no one would buy 'the hummers' of phones"