Recognizing magic as a rare and valuable art form and national treasure

Re:Recognizing magic as a rare and valuable art form and nat... by Aardwolf on Monday April 25, 2016 @10:55AM (#11564566)

The English language seems to be missing some word that other languages have.

In Dutch, "goochelen", performed by a "goochelaar" is doing tricks in a show, where you know it's all illusions but it's still very impressive. On the other hand, "toveren", done by a "tovenaar" would be doing something supernatural. Typically a "goochelaar" is somebody on a stage with a black top hat, while a "tovenaar" is more like an old man with a long white beard and a purple pointy hat in fiction.

In English, both seem to be called "magic". It's very confusing...

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Re:Recognizing magic as a rare and valuable art form and nat... by bitJericho on Monday April 25, 2016 @11:02AM (#11564628)

"...Illusion, Michael. A trick is something a whore does for money... (looks at the kids) or cocaine!"

We call them magic shows in general, but some magician's call themselves illusionists. If we're talking about supernatural magic, sometimes we use the variant magick.

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Re:Recognizing magic as a rare and valuable art form and nat... by eric_h on Monday April 25, 2016 @11:43AM (#11564955)

The fact that they quote Arthur C. Clarke saying "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" plays into this ambiguity. Most of what they're talking about here is "illusion", but I think that quote from Arthur C. Clarke is really referencing the supernatural meaning of the word "magic".

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Re:Recognizing magic as a rare and valuable art form and nat... by grblovrflowerrr on Monday April 25, 2016 @11:13AM (#11564715)

On the other hand though "magician" unambiguously refers to a person that performs stage magic, in a modern context at least.

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Re:Recognizing magic as a rare and valuable art form and nat... by AndyNemmity on Monday April 25, 2016 @12:16PM (#11565233)

Magician contains in it stage magic, as well as street magic, parlor magic and other forms. It doesn't limit itself to the stage.

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Re:Recognizing magic as a rare and valuable art form and nat... by nrclark on Monday April 25, 2016 @11:57AM (#11565078)

In American English, a 'magician' is somebody who pulls rabbits out of hats, and a 'wizard' is somebody who does supernatural things. We don't have as good of a separation for goochelen/toveren, but most Americans would use 'magic tricks' for goochelen and just 'magic' for toveren.

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Re:Recognizing magic as a rare and valuable art form and nat... by AndyNemmity on Monday April 25, 2016 @12:15PM (#11565224)

Magicians also use the term wizard (as well as 100s of other terms)

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Re:Recognizing magic as a rare and valuable art form and nat... by 99_00 on Monday April 25, 2016 @12:17PM (#11565253)

Historically, 'magicians' have intentionally cloaked their illusions in the supernatural, so it makes sense they claim to be masters of the supernatural. So the confusion is intentional.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/19/Thurston...

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Re:Recognizing magic as a rare and valuable art form and nat... by takluyver on Monday April 25, 2016 @11:31AM (#11564848)

'Conjuring tricks' performed by a 'conjuror', are unambiguously impressive deceit, not actual magic. 'Prestidigitation' is another term, if you like your language flowery. But yes, 'magic' and (to a lesser extent) 'wizardry' are ambiguous.

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Re:Recognizing magic as a rare and valuable art form and nat... by ethanbond on Monday April 25, 2016 @11:03AM (#11564636)

A lot of English speakers will use the word "illusions" instead of magic for... well... illusions.

You don't have to use that word so maybe it's weaker than the Dutch "goochelaar," but a lot of people do.

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Re:Recognizing magic as a rare and valuable art form and nat... by neaden on Monday April 25, 2016 @11:38AM (#11564905)

We do, it's prestidigitation but no one really uses it.

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Re:Recognizing magic as a rare and valuable art form and nat... by AndyNemmity on Monday April 25, 2016 @12:16PM (#11565237)

Magicians use it, one of the more common ones.

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Re:Recognizing magic as a rare and valuable art form and nat... by jloughry on Monday April 25, 2016 @11:43AM (#11564954)

The word you want in English might be 'prestidigitation'.

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