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Re:San Francisco Is Requiring Solar Panels on All New Buildings by st3v3r on Friday April 22, 2016 @05:36PM (#11552716)
"The idea of the commons is outside the realm of markets"

No, they aren't. They cannot be, otherwise the realm of markets is too limited to be of any worth.

The commons are where we all live, breathe, work, and play. To say they don't matter is to completely ignore what it is to be human.

Re:San Francisco Is Requiring Solar Panels on All New Buildings by ancap on Friday April 22, 2016 @06:39PM (#11553035)
>The commons are where we all live, breathe, work, and play. To say they don't matter is to completely ignore what it is to be human.

I can't speak for your life but I spend the vast majority of my time on private property--including where I live, the air I breath, when I'm at work and when I play--not in any commons.

Re:San Francisco Is Requiring Solar Panels on All New Buildings by zardo on Friday April 22, 2016 @08:12PM (#11553438)
>the air I breath

That's pretty interesting, do you purchase it or do you generate and store it yourself.

Re:San Francisco Is Requiring Solar Panels on All New Buildings by ancap on Saturday April 23, 2016 @11:06PM (#11558386)
Neither. Even by today's property rights, the owner of a piece of land is granted x hundred feet of sky above their property, making the air breathed there privately owned.
Re:San Francisco Is Requiring Solar Panels on All New Buildings by zardo on Sunday April 24, 2016 @08:09PM (#11561917)
I don't think it does that at all. You have rights to the space above your property, you have severe limitations on your right to modify the make up of the molecules that make up the air.

Would private ownership provide some means to prevent poisoning that atmosphere?

See: http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=99f0bd4d8deafa1761d...

Re:San Francisco Is Requiring Solar Panels on All New Buildings by ancap on Monday April 25, 2016 @10:19AM (#11564323)
You are correct that the ownership of the air above and around your property is severely limited when compared to the ownership of say land, water or minerals. 19th century courts abandoned the concept that factory smoke was a trespass on someone's air and weakened the concept of property rights in regards to ownership of air, ushering in this modern day tragedy of the commons. Obviously had the courts made the opposite rule, the amount of air pollution we face today would be much smaller.
Re:San Francisco Is Requiring Solar Panels on All New Buildings by st3v3r on Monday April 25, 2016 @12:37PM (#11565425)
I would LOVE to see you try to stop someone from breathing the air above your property.
Re:San Francisco Is Requiring Solar Panels on All New Buildings by ancap on Monday April 25, 2016 @05:48PM (#11567645)
Seeing as someone would have to be physically present on your property to breath your air, I'm not sure what would make kicking a trespasser off your land so exciting. There's probably videos on YouTube showing how people have handled trespassers on their property.
Re:San Francisco Is Requiring Solar Panels on All New Buildings by st3v3r on Monday April 25, 2016 @06:44PM (#11567998)
Or I could lean over, which would put my feet off your property, and my nostrils on the edge of your property, which would still allow me to suck the air off from your property.

Or, I could simply rent a glider or a hot air balloon, and float over your property.

Re:San Francisco Is Requiring Solar Panels on All New Buildings by ancap on Tuesday April 26, 2016 @11:38AM (#11572759)
Since air molecules have fluid boundaries, and since it is a non-scarce and fungible resource, the concept of ownership of air around your property does not mean ownership of specific molecules.
Re:San Francisco Is Requiring Solar Panels on All New Buildings by st3v3r on Tuesday April 26, 2016 @12:28PM (#11573236)
Yup, just keep moving those goalposts.
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Re:San Francisco Is Requiring Solar Panels on All New Buildings by dang on Thursday April 28, 2016 @09:59AM (#11588867)
Personal attacks are not allowed on HN. You've done this repeatedly, and we ban users who do that, so please don't do it again. Instead, please (re-)read the site rules and follow them. That means posting civilly and substantively (or not at all) from now on.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html