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Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by Someone1234 on Monday April 11, 2016 @10:52AM (#11471862)
People like to claim that background checks are used when someone is placed into a trusted position. However in my experience lower end jobs (where you're often trusted less) are often much MORE likely to have a background check.

To give a specific example: Work in a fast food place handling small amounts of cash and they'll background check you. Work in a company handling SSNs, Credit Cards, and medical records and they didn't even ask me if I had a criminal record (I don't).

So I cannot help but wonder if ex-convicts are going to suffer more while getting a low end job than they would if they were applying for high end positions. I guess the assumption is if you have a degree that you are somehow above crime...

I guess that's why so called "white collar crime" often goes undetected for longer and is often more successful overall.

Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by morgante on Monday April 11, 2016 @12:22PM (#11472671)
Classism lies at the heart of it. If someone is in a lower income job, higher ups are desperate to avoid hiring the "wrong sort of those people." In higher end jobs, they'll readily make excuses for past behavior (oh, it was just a youthful mistake). It sometimes amazes me that I've been hired into positions where I could have singlehandedly cost a company millions of dollars in revenue, but never had a single background check.

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Of course, a much more charitable explanation would be that there's an "efficiency wage" effect behind background checks. For good jobs, the job itself is good enough that employers assume you'd be stupid to somehow jeopardize it by stealing or committing a crime. In contrast, shitty retail jobs are bad and everybody knows it—the company assumes that your loss from the job wouldn't be big enough to offset the gains you might make from stealing. This could be a similar explanation for why immigrants commit fewer crimes: they have more to lose.

Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by BurningFrog on Monday April 11, 2016 @02:33PM (#11473979)
It seems more likely that the people making hiring decisions for a living do these checks for jobs where it turns out they're useful.
Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by dikdik on Monday April 11, 2016 @05:04PM (#11475094)
Unfortunately, they have not been proven useful. The credit reporting agencies do sell it to companies as "useful" to measure a candidate's integrity and ability to succeed. However, if you watch John Oliver's segment you will see at least 1 agency testified under oath that they have no evidence to back up their claims.

All it can be said to do is to weed out poor people or conversely allow terrible employers to pinpoint candidates that they can easily abuse because they are so far in debt.

Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by BurningFrog on Thursday April 14, 2016 @03:46PM (#11499781)
Most things people do have not been proven useful scientifically.

That is very different from being proven useless.

Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by drzaiusapelord on Monday April 11, 2016 @02:21PM (#11473885)
>Classism lies at the heart of it.

This seems overly-dramatic. The reality is that there is a lot of petty crime with people who handle cash, compared to those on a white collar career path. Petty crime happens so often its not even reported, and white collar crime is so rare it makes the news, so you may be skewed to think that casual stealing from retail employers is rare, but it certainly is not.

On top of it, the kinds of people most likely to work with a cash register are those who are largely unknowns. Yes, I do trust the guy with 15 years experience in finance more compared to the teen getting his first or second job to better handle money. Also criminality goes down with age. Experience tells me 15 year career guy has made it this far without getting arrested and has a lot of skin the in the game. Its not "classist" to think so. Its basic risk analysis. Just because something seems distasteful to you doesn't mean its wrong. I wish more people understood this simple concept.

That said, I've gotten background checked at every white collar job I've had. Companies need a CYA for new hires and that's how its typically done. This has been the standard in my field for decades. Not sure where the idea that white collar people are immune from background checks comes from. It certainly isn't common in my peer group.

It may also be that a lot of entry level retail jobs are mostly from large corporate employers who have top-down policies regarding background checks. Sure, Walmart did a check on you but your uncle didn't for a summer job filling out TPS reports at his company. That's not a sign of a conspiracy, but different values/risk assumption from two different organizations.

Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by erikpukinskis on Monday April 11, 2016 @02:24PM (#11473913)
> Petty crime happens so often its not even reported, and white collar crime is so rare it makes the news

You are making a strong claim about the frequency of unreported events. Where does your data come from?

> Experience tells me 15 year career guy has made it this far without getting arrested and has a lot of skin the in the game

What experience are you talking about? It sounds more like you are making a logical argument, rather than an experiential one: the while collar must be more trustworthy because he has more money to lose. It is obvious to you that the more money you are making, the more honest you must be. That's a logical conclusion at best, not an experience.

Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by iamdave on Monday April 11, 2016 @12:01PM (#11472458)
I definitely observed this phenomenon while I was out of work for a little while, and even directly asked the recruiter when looking at two roles on their career portal: "Why does the lower wage, lower responsibility, and lower risk job come with higher barriers for employment eligibility than its managerial counterpart?"

She asked what I meant so I spelled it out more directly "Why does a file clerk role require a background check, credit check and drug screen but this role here, a Senior accounting role asks only for relevant job history?" She admitted she didn't know.

I wish I could say this was limited to that company, but I saw it so much over the course of about 3 months that I started to really wonder what the hell is going on..

Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by hobs on Monday April 11, 2016 @11:18AM (#11472063)
Yeah, temporary firms/staffing agencies are huge consumers of background checks, and they often are just hiring someone to run a machine/be an admin.
Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by Kinnard on Monday April 11, 2016 @11:46AM (#11472309)
How bizarre, this seems economically unjustifiable, that is to say— I smell a rat.
Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by adrusi on Monday April 11, 2016 @12:14PM (#11472588)
The rich are just suspicious of the poor. They trust people from similar backgrounds as themselves. Employers irrationally think they can gauge a person's trustworthiness just by interacting with them for a few hours during an interview. And trustworthiness is virtually impossible to test for in higher paying roles: people earning low wages ususally don't have the power to defraud the company too much, but there's a lot of people with that limited power so they're a threat. Wealthier employees could engage in petty fraud too, but they have less incentive to do so because they don't need the money as much, and there's not as many of them, so even if they did it would be less damaging. Instead the concern over richer, more skilled and educated employees is that they'll steal large amounts from the company, and unless they end up in prison, nobody will ever know (contrast with working-class fraud which will usually only end up losing the person their job, so there's less incentive to avoid being caught).

There's probably no conspiracy, just generalized classism.

Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by r00fus on Monday April 11, 2016 @04:08PM (#11474689)
To generalize: it's similarity/ingroup bias - as a human you are biased to be more sympathetic to people like yourself.

It takes a lot of empathy (something that is actively selected against in our corporation dominated workforce) to bypass that.

Add into that the gravity of money (ie, rich get richer) and political corruption (money buys power) and you have a basic framework for classism.

Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by Kinnard on Monday April 11, 2016 @10:32PM (#11476819)
Are there some people who exhibit the trait of being biased toward people who are not like them?
Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by whatok on Monday April 11, 2016 @12:00PM (#11472435)
Believe it all comes down to insurance and having someone else to blame. Think about why most jobs use urine instead of hair for drug testing. Hell of a lot cheaper, don't care about accuracy, and just want to be able to say that they did it.
Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by hobs on Monday April 11, 2016 @12:21PM (#11472664)
The costs for hiring are enormous, and the cost for lost revenue are big for hiring agencies.

If I want to farm your labor, I need to find you, make sure you are going to work long enough at a site for me to make money, and I have to hope that you wont do something that will sour the relationship I have with "my" customer (the business I am renting you to.)

The margins for staffing places are actually pretty small per person, so its not so much unjustifiable as it is dehumanizing.

Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by KirinDave on Monday April 11, 2016 @12:40PM (#11472870)
So why increase your costs using data that has no appreciable correlation with what affects your bottom line?

I worked temp out of college in the dot com bust. I lived out of a borrowed car. I was desperate for work and had relevant skills, but many temp agencies wouldn't touch me. It was stupid and dehumanizing, but it was also pretty unjustifiable.

Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by Bluestrike2 on Monday April 11, 2016 @01:39PM (#11473515)
Because it shifts perceived responsibility for any failures from the temp agency to the service that performed the background checks.
Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by KirinDave on Monday April 11, 2016 @04:43PM (#11474924)
Except that the BC folks would never accept such responsibility, and the temp agencies require employers to waive the right to claim (limiting the damages to reputation).

So maybe that is the logic, but it's specious logic.

Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by superuser2 on Monday April 11, 2016 @12:11PM (#11472556)
Nothing compared to the reputation damage and fallout when something happens and the client is incredulous. "You hired a felon?"
Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by lettergram on Monday April 11, 2016 @11:00AM (#11471937)
That may be your experience, but having worked for a large medical billing and large bank, both do heavy background checks. I've even been finger printed, and had my Facebook searched.
Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by richardthered on Monday April 11, 2016 @11:57AM (#11472398)
You've had your Facebook searched? What was that process like?

I've gone through tons of background checks / drug screens for federal and state governments, and financial companies. But I've never had a Facebook search...

Is that even legal?

Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by vitd on Monday April 11, 2016 @01:03PM (#11473122)
It's legal, though I believe Facebook has stated that it's against their terms of service.
Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by matwood on Monday April 11, 2016 @01:41PM (#11473532)
They have probably looked at your public facebook.
Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by matwood on Tuesday April 12, 2016 @11:49AM (#11480597)
Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by sillysaurus3 on Monday April 11, 2016 @11:13AM (#11472029)
Your Facebook searched? What do you mean?
Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by lettergram on Monday April 11, 2016 @11:49AM (#11472337)
I mean, they asked for my login information to search my Facebook. I actually declined, but they still ran through all the public information and connections I had.
Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by tibbon on Monday April 11, 2016 @12:18PM (#11472629)
Best answers I can think of here:

"I'm sorry, I don't use Facebook as it seems an invasion of personal privacy"

or

"Ok, here's my Facebook account" and then give them some uber-sanitized account that just has photos of kittens and messages on your mom's wall about her cookies.

Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by lmkg on Monday April 11, 2016 @01:59PM (#11473684)
Actually, one valid answer is "That's illegal in the state of California."

It works best if you're actually in California, but even if not, it might give them pause.

Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by facetube on Monday April 11, 2016 @02:12PM (#11473807)
That results in them finding a different excuse to not hire you and then documenting it in case you sue.
Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by Lawtonfogle on Monday April 11, 2016 @02:10PM (#11473789)
Why not: Here is my link to my facebook portal (include public link). I cannot give you my credentials because I am in a legal agreement with facebook to not give my credentials to anyone.
Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by pavel_lishin on Monday April 11, 2016 @01:31PM (#11473448)
In case one, wouldn't it be incredibly obvious that you're lying, and in the second case, only marginally plausible that you keep such an empty, vanilla profile?
Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by matwood on Monday April 11, 2016 @01:40PM (#11473524)
So not having a facebook account means I'm lying? I really do not have a facebook account so I guess by definition I'm a lier :/
Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by pavel_lishin on Monday April 11, 2016 @01:51PM (#11473611)
No, that was addressed to tibbon's comment, which I read as him actually having a Facebook account.
Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by erroneousfunk on Monday April 11, 2016 @11:14AM (#11472033)
Had your Facebook searched? Does that mean they ask for your login and look through it, or look through all the publicly-available information?
Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by lettergram on Monday April 11, 2016 @11:50AM (#11472345)
I mean, they asked for my login information to search my Facebook. I declined, but they still ran through all the public information and connections I had.

Later, I worked on some of their creepy background checking software. Essentially, without the login, they can still get all the information about me they need.

Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by ipsin on Monday April 11, 2016 @12:29PM (#11472742)
If this happens to anyone else, just quote Facebook's Statement of Rights and Responsibilities. https://www.facebook.com/terms

4. You will not share your password (or in the case of developers, your secret key), let anyone else access your account, or do anything else that might jeopardize the security of your account.

It's not iron-clad, but it may dissuade the nosy.

Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by jeromegv on Monday April 11, 2016 @11:58AM (#11472422)
This will of course depend on your existing privacy settings.
Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by fucking_tragedy on Monday April 11, 2016 @01:46PM (#11473572)
Those change over time so Facebook exposes more of your information you meant to keep hidden.

I have to check my Facebook every few months to find out what sort of content is now visible to a new group of people that was hidden by me in the past.

Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by sghodas on Monday April 11, 2016 @02:53PM (#11474136)
Really? I haven't found that to be the case. Everything that I've set to specific privacy groups (me only, friends, etc) has stayed the same.
Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by Lawtonfogle on Monday April 11, 2016 @02:03PM (#11473718)
My own experience has been background checks always.

Work with military data was by far the most extensive (required approved clearance). Government positions were the most varied, with one being very thorough (not quite as bad as the military), and an other being the least intensive. Financial institution were middle of the road.

But everywhere where I had database access required a background check and only one place didn't require a drug test. The lower income positions I worked required neither.

One thing I did notice from my friends is that smaller shops are less likely to have institutionalize policies. A small startup is less likely to background check you than a fast food chain likely has a policy requiring it. But this applies to any large organizations, not just lower income positions.

Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by valine on Monday April 11, 2016 @12:29PM (#11472738)
The company I interned for last year year ran a background check on me. I kept getting emails from them requesting 10 years of work history. In 2005 I was 8 years old. I think they put me down as unemployed.
Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by whatok on Monday April 11, 2016 @01:19PM (#11473292)
I also had a background check asking for ten years of history. Many of the companies were either out of business or outsourced HR which created issues. I also ran into an issue with job titles not matching exactly or external job title (which I was familiar with from the hiring process) not matching up with internal title (which I was not familiar with at all). The month or so of back and forth on this was easily the most stressful period of my life.
Re:John Oliver on the ugly state of credit reporting and bac... by Gibbon1 on Monday April 11, 2016 @07:33PM (#11476002)
Aiiiigghhh! When I was 8 years old Jimmy Hendrix was still alive.