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Re:How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography pr... by sneak on Wednesday April 06, 2016 @12:59PM (#11440022)
Tell me again why well-off American programmers continue living in that country without the most basic of human rights?

It's time to go. You can still access us-east-1 from the civilized bits of Europe, you know.

It has now been between 2 and 10 years since the time where it became totally unreasonable to continue living there while other options are available to you.

Don't wait until the trumped-up federal charges. Move now.

Re:How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography pr... by delinka on Wednesday April 06, 2016 @01:08PM (#11440092)
To where? What government on the planet doesn't have this kind of power over its country's citizens? Of the governments you can list, how many of those countries actually have civilization where a non-native wouldn't have to fear for their lives?
Re:How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography pr... by Zigurd on Wednesday April 06, 2016 @01:28PM (#11440234)
Some governments have similar power written into law, but lack the technical means and budget to use them.
Re:How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography pr... by cnfjdnncd on Wednesday April 06, 2016 @01:16PM (#11440143)
Iceland has a very good record with human rights and properly functioning democratic representation.

Some of the Nordic states are trailing runners up.

Re:How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography pr... by webjprgm on Wednesday April 06, 2016 @01:47PM (#11440380)
Isn't Iceland going through a national financial crisis and also just booted their president for lying to them? That doesn't sound much better.
Re:How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography pr... by tremon on Wednesday April 06, 2016 @03:09PM (#11441019)
Yes, they just booted their prime minister. Sounds like a politically healthy country to me.
Re:How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography pr... by ptaipale on Wednesday April 06, 2016 @03:42PM (#11441332)
They also had their currency value cut to half in 2008, and that had a very real impact on the purchasing power of people. The currency has recovered a bit but the change is still there and its's big.

There are also currency controls for taking money out, etc. Iceland is still in severe shock.

Re:How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography pr... by meric on Friday April 08, 2016 @02:29AM (#11452920)
New Zealand seems good.
Re:How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography pr... by x3n0ph3n3 on Wednesday April 06, 2016 @01:06PM (#11440080)
I honestly don't see any other "free" countries. Most lack a fundamental freedom of speech or a right to bear arms. Where is this utopia of freedom you think exists? As someone who's ancestors helped fight for and found this nation, it's hard for me to just give up on it.
Re:How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography pr... by tremon on Wednesday April 06, 2016 @01:09PM (#11440099)
So, you'd rather have weapons yourself than an accountable government? That explains a lot, I feel.
Re:How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography pr... by x3n0ph3n3 on Wednesday April 06, 2016 @01:18PM (#11440160)
I'd like both, actually, but I guess your strawman allows you do just dismiss other perspectives.

I want a government accountable to the people, and the right to bear arms was meant to ensure that. The removal of arms turns a citizenry into subjects.

Re:How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography pr... by kazagistar on Wednesday April 06, 2016 @02:29PM (#11440699)
It doesn't seem to be doing a particularly good job of ensuring it at the moment.
Re:How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography pr... by krapp on Wednesday April 06, 2016 @03:44PM (#11441347)
This is because we no longer live in the time of the founding fathers. Most Americans don't see themselves living in a state of tyranny, and reject the thesis of protracted, mass violence being necessary for a modern free state. Whether this is due to the cowardice or sanity of the American people is a matter of debate.
Re:How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography pr... by l3m0ndr0p on Wednesday April 06, 2016 @01:29PM (#11440239)
tremon - When a government has all of the weapons and the means to use them against the population, you no longer have an accountable government. This is how it is today in America and it appears to be getting worse. I don't condone violence, but the current system encourages it.

Our current US government wields powerful weapons called: Justice, Democracy and Law. The government is controlled by a few, who are making decisions behind closed doors that only benefit themselves. They have the mechanisms in place to enforce the will of the state against any human being for any reason.

You can be accused of anything by the government. You can be locked up without due process. Just because you don't see it everyday, doesn't mean that it's not happening. It's here in the USA.

Remove the weapons from the state. Forbid the use of force and violence against any citizen that resides in the USA. We should be focused on Peace, Truth, and Justice. Do no harm to yourself or to others.

Peace can never be delivered at the end of a a weapon or a writ of law. it must come from within.

peace

Re:How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography pr... by tremon on Wednesday April 06, 2016 @02:32PM (#11440723)
Our current US government wields powerful weapons called: Justice, Democracy and Law

Actually, this is part of the point I was trying to make -- democracy and law are weapons of the people, not of the government. The whole "murrica is the only free country because we have guns" mantra is getting more than a bit tiresome. Not just because it's old and untrue, but also because it's a race to the bottom: because of gun laws, your government now uses grenades and body armour to maintain order. That's not peace nor freedom.

What I was trying to point out was the innate fear and distrust between American citizens and the state. It's become so ingrained that "I won't move to another country because they won't allow me my guns" is apparently valid reasoning among the thinking 1% of the population.

I could have phrased it a lot less bitter than I did though, and your response made me put in the effort. So thank you for that.

Re:How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography pr... by Delmania on Wednesday April 06, 2016 @02:42PM (#11440798)
> Tell me again why well-off American programmers continue living in that country without the most basic of human rights?

My family. I have a dream of moving to Iceland, Norway, or Sweden and becoming an expatriate. My wife and children do not share that.

Re:How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography pr... by sneak on Friday April 08, 2016 @11:10AM (#11455170)
Your wife and children would probably be pretty upset if you did something otherwise-legal that happened to somehow piss off the government and they threw you in jail forever.

Educate them about the risks.

Re:How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography pr... by ocschwar on Wednesday April 06, 2016 @01:59PM (#11440471)
You think permanent resident visas are easy to acquire ?
Re:How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography pr... by sneak on Friday April 08, 2016 @11:11AM (#11455179)
Straw man argument. Just because the process can be difficult does not mean you should not undertake it. I never claimed it was easy.

What's really not-easy is being thrown in federal for running a website, or publishing, or pissing off the wrong inner party member.

Re:How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography pr... by ocschwar on Sunday April 10, 2016 @12:39PM (#11466914)
Try damn-near impossible. And if you do it for a reason like this you can get deported back to the US with "kick me FBI" tattooed on your forehead
Re:How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography pr... by ekianjo on Wednesday April 06, 2016 @01:06PM (#11440075)
> Tell me again why well-off American programmers continue living in that country without the most basic of human rights?

One thing to keep in mind if you move out of the US is that you will be subject to double-taxation as a US citizen. So technically if you want to reject the system you need to leave the country and lose the passport.

Re:How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography pr... by function_seven on Wednesday April 06, 2016 @01:21PM (#11440187)
You're not double-taxed as a US citizen abroad. You pay the higher of the two taxes. And you don't pay US taxes on the first 100k of income.
Re:How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography pr... by tremon on Wednesday April 06, 2016 @03:11PM (#11441042)
How does that work? If your local taxes are more than what the US would take, they take nothing? And if the US taxes are higher, the US only receives the surplus amount?
Re:How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography pr... by function_seven on Wednesday April 06, 2016 @03:45PM (#11441372)
Link below explains it better. I'm sure it's as complicated as the IRS can make it, and I'm sure there are situations where some of your income is double-taxed, but for most people, you choose either a tax credit in the amount of foreign taxes paid, or you get to exclude 100k of your income right off the bat.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/when-us-citizens-livi...

Re:How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography pr... by BookmarkSaver on Wednesday April 06, 2016 @01:13PM (#11440129)
>that country without the most basic of human rights

Compared to where?

Re:How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography pr... by fweespee_ch on Wednesday April 06, 2016 @02:10PM (#11440563)
> Tell me again why well-off American programmers continue living in that country without the most basic of human rights?

1) If we all abandon ship, who will be left to argue that this is wrong?

2) A number of countries in Europe lack substantial protections for the freedom of expression. This stuff is only known in the US because its extremely difficult to shut people up.

3) A number of countries are as heavily, if not more heavily, invested in using the tools of the state [surveillance, etc] against the domestic population.

4) The simple fact is if the Government [in whatever country] puts you on their list of people to destroy, you will be destroyed 9 times out of 10. There is substantial xenophobia in both the US and Europe that is fueled by a combination of terrorism, wages, immigration, and a "Fuck you, I have mine" mentality. The US may be swinging heavily in one direction at the moment, but many European countries have been as bad in the past.

5) Please list countries which you consider "enlightened" and I'll tear them down to size if that is your desire.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/01/opinion/the-french-surveil...

> Mr. Valls, who announced the bill on the day after the deadly attack at the National Bardo Museum in Tunis and as France still reels from the terrorist attacks in Paris in January, has assured the nation that the bill “is not a French Patriot Act,” a comparison to America’s post-9/11 law. But, in a statement on the bill, the Digital Council, which advises the French government about technology’s effects on society, referred specifically to Edward Snowden’s revelations of the extent of United States government surveillance, warning that the bill proposed by Mr. Valls would open the door to similar excesses in France.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/24/france-big-brot...

> The constitutional council made only minor tweaks to the legislation, which human rights and privacy campaigners, as well as the United Nations, have described as paving the way for “very intrusive” surveillance and state-approved eavesdropping and computer-hacking.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/mar/03/french-pa...

> French parliamentary deputies, defying government wishes, have voted in favour of penalising smartphone makers which fail to cooperate in terrorism inquiries, entering a controversy that has pitted the FBI against Apple in the United States.

Similar laws exist in other EU countries.