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Re:DRM Non-Aggression on the Table at W3C by irq-1 on Wednesday March 16, 2016 @11:32PM (#11302411)
It wasn't so many years ago that the solution would have been a proprietary patent with FRAND (Fair, Reasonable, and Non-Discriminatory) licensing and payment. Free and Open Source made the payment impossible, so companies had to change. The proprietary control through patents was tempered by standard bodies excluding such contributions (like W3C [0]), or patent disclaimers (like Microsofts Community Promise [1]), or patent pooling (like MPEG LA). So if we want to eliminate DRM, without hoping for another miracle from Apple, we should use the large market share of open source software.

Maybe that means changing licenses (like a BSD 4-clause 'no DRM' license).

Maybe it means making client/server software that just doesn't work with DRM, closing down web based DRM, and forcing Hulu etc... to each implement their own clients on every platform (as it was before EME). Maybe get a Netflix competitor to use AGPL3 server and clients, that won't work with distributors that demand DRM.

[0] https://www.w3.org/Consortium/Patent-Policy-20040205/#sec-Li...

[1] https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/openspecifications/dn750984

Re:DRM Non-Aggression on the Table at W3C by akira2501 on Thursday March 17, 2016 @02:50AM (#11302907)
Personally, I could care less about DRM on content; I'm far more appaled that I have to use DRM on the cable/protocol between my monitor and my video card. One of these harms my "freedom to tinker," the other, not so much.
Re:DRM Non-Aggression on the Table at W3C by bad_user on Thursday March 17, 2016 @01:21AM (#11302731)
A no-DRM clause would go against the definition of both Free Software and Open Source. Or more exactly, if you apply any restrictions on usage, then the software can't be classified as either. No exceptions.

And on distribution any copy left license would do, because it is DRM ruling itself out, as transparency of the code is incompatible with DRM. That's because all DRM accomplishes is a sort of security by obscurity so there can't be generally accepted solutions that are open-source. There's no DRM in Chromium for example. But except for the browser, it's not distribution that's relevant, which is why organizations like the FSF, the EFF and Mozilla are pissed off about W3C standardizing DRM.

I wouldn't hope for any miracles by Apple, when they are single handily responsible for popularizing DRM amongst consumers, along with Trusted Computing. Their whole iTunes / iPhone business is built on top and the rest of the industry followed.

Re:DRM Non-Aggression on the Table at W3C by TD-Linux on Thursday March 17, 2016 @01:32AM (#11302752)
The GPLv3 solves this by not preventing you from implementing DRM, but granting you the right to circumvent any DRM implemented with the software.
Re:DRM Non-Aggression on the Table at W3C by Sanddancer on Thursday March 17, 2016 @02:00AM (#11302808)
I don't think that GPLv3-encumbered software would help here. About all it would do is make companies say, "download our app to watch this." keeping the status quo the same.
Re:DRM Non-Aggression on the Table at W3C by leereeves on Thursday March 17, 2016 @05:02AM (#11303273)
How would a copy-left license force disclosure of DRM implemented in a library distributed as a binary blob?

All you'd see in the open source code is a call to that library (just like a call to a binary blob driver from the Linux kernel, for example).

Re:DRM Non-Aggression on the Table at W3C by tzs on Thursday March 17, 2016 @07:19AM (#11303675)
> Maybe it means making client/server software that just doesn't work with DRM, closing down web based DRM, and forcing Hulu etc... to each implement their own clients on every platform (as it was before EME)

Hulu etc would not be forced to implement their own clients. Someone would develop a general, easily customizable client that Hulu etc would license that supported a plugin system for the DRM components. Hulu etc would license that.

Re:DRM Non-Aggression on the Table at W3C by echelon on Wednesday March 16, 2016 @11:50PM (#11302465)
A viral no-DRM clause in a variety of open source licenses sounds like a great idea! How could we go about promulgating such a thing?
Re:DRM Non-Aggression on the Table at W3C by zanny on Thursday March 17, 2016 @12:26AM (#11302566)
Start using GPLv3 and AGPLv3 like you were supposed to for the better part of the last decade, and stop listening to the divisive arguments from pragmatists who don't care about the ethical consequences of permissive licensing when it comes to these kinds of things.

Even if you want to get post-copyright (I certainly do) we don't improve the situation fueling the copyright lobby with technological force multipliers through our own hard work. Keep them honest with copyleft licenses to keep users free of this kind of nonsense.

Re:DRM Non-Aggression on the Table at W3C by g1n016399 on Thursday March 17, 2016 @05:00AM (#11303261)
> Keep them honest with copyleft licenses to keep users free of this kind of nonsense.

... and support the GPL compliance efforts of organisations like Software Freedom Conservancy:

https://sfconservancy.org/supporter/

Re:DRM Non-Aggression on the Table at W3C by duaneb on Thursday March 17, 2016 @01:33AM (#11302754)
Gplv3 comes with a ton of baggage, though, and it still isn't clear how enforceable agplv3 is.

I suspect better content licensing would be best--have a license that forces any distributor to offer media that can be played with FOSS software.

Re:DRM Non-Aggression on the Table at W3C by Sanddancer on Thursday March 17, 2016 @02:11AM (#11302828)
How will GPLv3 prevent smartphone, smarttv, etc apps from using DRM? About all GPLv3 and AGPLv3 would do is give a slightly smaller corpus of software to use in implementing. How much software did Apple open up when GCC went GPLv3?
Re:DRM Non-Aggression on the Table at W3C by zanny on Thursday March 17, 2016 @10:41AM (#11304601)
Apple has never included the GPLv3 version of GCC on OSX themselves. For years they were shipping the outdated last GPLv2 release, and then they put all their effort into LLVM to replace GCC entirely because they refused to give up their DRM and Tivoization.

GPLv3 has this clause:

Some countries have adopted laws prohibiting software that enables users to escape from Digital Restrictions Management. DRM is fundamentally incompatible with the purpose of the GPL, which is to protect users' freedom; therefore, the GPL ensures that the software it covers will neither be subject to, nor subject other works to, digital restrictions from which escape is forbidden.

And has a definition corollary:

Complete Corresponding Source Code also includes any encryption or authorization codes necessary to install and/or execute the source code of the work, perhaps modified by you, in the recommended or principal context of use, such that its functioning in all circumstances is identical to that of the work, except as altered by your modifications. It also includes any decryption codes necessary to access or unseal the work's output. Notwithstanding this, a code need not be included in cases where use of the work normally implies the user already has it.

The GPL "stops" apps from using DRM because to use DRM is to violate the license and be liable for copyright infringement.

On OSX specifically, I imagine the Apple had some leaky GPLv3 code somewhere, because they open sourced a lot of Darwin between 2007-2010.

Re:DRM Non-Aggression on the Table at W3C by Sanddancer on Thursday March 17, 2016 @08:05PM (#11308737)
That's my point. The GPLv3 did less than nothing in encouraging reasonable sharing, it made companies wall things off more. When you're even a moderate sized company, there comes a point where it's easier to just write your own than to deal with the restrictions software licenses bring. It's happened with a ton of commercial code, and it happens with Free code as well.
Re:DRM Non-Aggression on the Table at W3C by belorn on Friday March 18, 2016 @09:51AM (#11311749)
Don't tell Blizzard that. They use a tons of free libraries in their flag ship products, including LGPLv3 in Starcraft 2. Im sure they would just love to delay the release date swith a year or two in order to avoid FOSS licenses and rewrite their own XML parser, fonts, or HTML/CSS code parsers.

That is, unless they can do cost-benefit. Some markets is just to competitive that you can't waste developer time in order to be afraid of licenses. The game market is very saturated, but there might be places where you can afford to entertain peoples fear.

Re:DRM Non-Aggression on the Table at W3C by anon1385 on Thursday March 17, 2016 @03:33AM (#11303004)
> Start using AGPLv3 like you were supposed to for the better part of the last decade

What if I care about freedom zero? AGPLv3 is incompatible with freedom zero.

I'm not sure you can criticise other people for failing to care about ethical consequences when you are casually prepared to throw away one of the core principles of free software.

Re:DRM Non-Aggression on the Table at W3C by AaronFriel on Thursday March 17, 2016 @12:10AM (#11302518)
It's a non-starter called GPL3. While I'm not a lawyer, my understanding is that many businesses consider the GPL3 and its extended anti-tivoization, anti-patent provisions dangerous.

They may be misguided, I won't comment on that here. I will just say that my impression is that such an anti-DRM clause exists, and the license that uses it has many detractors.

Re:DRM Non-Aggression on the Table at W3C by spriggan3 on Thursday March 17, 2016 @06:37AM (#11303568)
Was it tested in court in US ? Were some businesses sued for violation of a GPL3 license ? if yes by whom ? it's just a question.