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Re:Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug by rubicon33 on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @02:54PM (#11255334)
If they broke their leg while doing something that endangered not only themself, but their family, their friends, and society on a whole, I might not jump at an opportunity to help them.
Re:Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug by j2bax on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @06:08PM (#11256345)
Personally I don't consider myself such a good judge. If someone's in need, I like to think I will help them in whatever capacity I can. Many things lead to people making bad decisions, and they aren't all internal 1-sided factors.
Re:Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug by rubicon33 on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @07:16PM (#11256600)
I guess that's where we disagree. I do consider myself a good judge. If you don't feel you have a sharp rational thought, an ability to consider a wide range of factors, including a dose of fair human compassion, then yes you probably should just help out everyone by default. That's a good default position to take, and one I do commend.

Myself on the other hand, I believe in my own ability to be fair in judgement, to straddle that difficult line between compassion and personal responsibility. I believe it IS possible to leave someone bleeding in the street because they chose to endanger themself, their family, their community, and the quality of life of everyone on this planet.

That's a position that will strike many as arrogant, entitled, and downright wrong. I can understand that position, and still choose to disagree with it. As an ideal, I hold personal responsibility in the highest regard, while still understanding that life hits you hard sometimes in ways you cant possible predict.

Re:Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug by vectorjohn on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @09:23PM (#11257081)
It's not just arrogant and cruel, it's also logically inconsistent. Everything libertarian leads to an everyone for themselves hellscape. But this in particular would indicate you shouldn't help someone in a car accident because of driving in bad weather, or really driving at all. They took the risk, the risk was well known, so screw them while they bleed to death in the car, right?
Re:Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug by rubicon33 on Thursday March 10, 2016 @01:45PM (#11261155)
"Everything libertarian leads to an everyone for themselves hellscape."

When you take a black and white perspective like this, it's evident you don't have any intention of understanding your fellow man's position. In this way, you yourself are proving logically inconsistent. You have deemed yourself intelligent enough to judge me as being wrong, in my decision to judge others?

So let me get this straight, I am wrong because I believe myself intelligent, rational, thoughtful, and considerate enough, to pass fair judgment on to others. Yet you are not wrong for your rational and thoughtful analysis and subsequent judgment of my belief? That's not just logically inconsistent, it's hypocritical.

Regarding your example:

Again, things are not as black and white as you would like them to be. Each scenario takes a requires a multitude of factors be considered.

Yes, the driver chose to drive in bad weather, which certainly put themselves at risk. I tend to have no problem helping people, who just hurt themselves. But what about the other drivers? Did he put them at risk too? Sure, but those drivers implicitly took the same risk, when they chose to driver in bad weather.

There's an additional consideration, that of the acceptability of someone's behavior. Driving is a socially accepted practice, and one that is sometimes a necessary task. I can extend compassion for them, by assuming the needed to engage in this socially accepted practice of driving, despite the risks.

Re:Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug by mindcrime on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @10:50PM (#11257289)
Everything libertarian leads to an everyone for themselves hellscape

How in the world do you arrive at that conclusion? Personally, I can't imagine anything being further from the truth...

Re:Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug by Klinky on Thursday March 10, 2016 @12:37AM (#11257530)
It seems the Libertarian mindset would lead someone who survived a plane crash to think that they chose the right seat, and those who died must have had poor seat choosing ability. Instead of it just being chaotic luck. The Libertarian mindset heavily relies on survival bias.

There are a lot of things outside of ones control in life, and while you can try to shape the direction in your life with personal choice, not everyone starts from the same spot, not all situations are the same, and not all risks pay off.

Re:Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug by mindcrime on Thursday March 10, 2016 @12:49AM (#11257553)
It seems the Libertarian mindset would lead someone who survived a plane crash to think that they chose the right seat, and those who died must have had poor seat choosing ability.

TBH, that sounds like a complete caricature of a Libertarian thinker from where I'm sitting. Maybe there are people like that out there, and maybe some of them self-identify as Libertarians (or libertarians) but there's nothing inherent in the Libertarian world-view that would lead to such a position.

There are a lot of things outside of ones control in life, and while you can try to shape the direction in your life with personal choice, not everyone starts from the same spot, not all situations are the same, and not all risks pay off.

That's absolutely true, and of the Libertarians I know, I don't think I know a single one who would contest that.

Source: am a Libertarian.

Re:Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug by Klinky on Thursday March 10, 2016 @01:04AM (#11257585)
Probably not all Libertarians are the same, but most I've dealt with have a selfish arrogance about the outcome of the choices they've made, and ignorance about the plight of others. There is also a strong desire to dismantle regulations and safety nets, because of a belief that it would bring immediate benefit themselves. The Libertopian ideal really does sound like a privatized "hellscape", which the Libertarians obviously think they would be the CEOs of.
Re:Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug by logfromblammo on Thursday March 10, 2016 @11:49AM (#11260295)
There are more varieties of libertarian than there are varieties of authoritarian. Similarly, there are more types of atheist than there are religions.

As a class of people, there is only one factor that ties all of them together under a single ideological umbrella. By all other measures, their opinions can vary wildly.

The capital-L Libertarians, otherwise known as the members of the Libertarian Party, are just the tip of the small-l libertarian iceberg. For those who have chosen to abandon political participation and evangelism, you may never even realize they are libertarian at all.

There are some godawful douchebag libertarians. There are criminal fraud libertarians. And there are also libertarians that are outwardly indistinguishable from everybody else, aside from little things like laughing at something when a joke was not intended.

Do you remember Dennis, the 37-year-old not-an-old-woman from Monty Python and the Search for the Holy Grail? Do you recall how he was attempting to explain the anarcho-syndicalist commune to King Arthur? Anarcho-syndicalists are a type of libertarian. Just as Arthur dismissed him as completely useless, modern mainstream politics ignores and marginalizes most libertarian groups. And they do it to each other, as well. No one is better at denouncing a particular type of libertarianism than another type of libertarian.

Re:Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug by vectorjohn on Thursday March 10, 2016 @02:54AM (#11257837)
Yeah, not just ignorance, but willful ignorance. You have to try really hard not to see how much luck and chaos has to do with every day life.
Re:Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug by mindcrime on Thursday March 10, 2016 @01:19AM (#11257621)
There is also a strong desire to dismantle regulations and safety nets, because of a belief that it would bring immediate benefit them.

I would guess that most of those people are not terribly well educated in the basis of Libertarian thought. That's a pretty naive interpretation of it anyway.

Anyway, I'd love to continue this conversation, but it's probably veering close to (or into) "off topic" territory, so I'll just drop this here.

Re:Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug by ugexe on Thursday March 10, 2016 @12:40AM (#11257538)
Another man who lives by such words is Donald Drump. I look forward to the future where everyone is a self proclaimed great judge of everything.
Re:Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug by Klinky on Thursday March 10, 2016 @12:32AM (#11257521)
Are you sure you're not suffering from Dunning–Kruger effect?
Re:Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug by Kluny on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @07:00PM (#11256542)
I would. Sometimes people do stuff that doesn't make sense to you as a rational response to factors that you're not aware of. When someone needs help for something that they did to themselves, I always assume that's the case, because it mostly always is.
Re:Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug by 13of40 on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @11:13PM (#11257358)
I think I'd help anyone with a broken leg, regardless if they'd been making an ass of themselves to get it. Maybe I'd say "hey man".... Afterwards, but I wouldn't forego help on the spot.