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Re:Some ad-blockers are tracking you, shaking down publisher... by elorant on Wednesday March 02, 2016 @03:30PM (#11212775)
Wired's final prediction is that all the ads will disappear into sponsored content within a decade.

I’m surprised that Wired made such a prediction because to me it sounds awfully wrong. For starters, whatever is going to happen it will happen much sooner than a decade. Ad blocking adoption has already reached 35% in some countries. At 50%-60% the industry is doomed. Not to mention fake ad impressions which already amount to one quarter of all traffic. I also find it odd that the only outcome they see is sponsored content. We already have that, it’s called native advertising and it sucks. If advertisers can have a saying on the content then the quality will go south pretty fast. What about micropayments? What about serving ads from the publisher’s domain? What about stopping the damn profiling which is the root of the problem? It seems that the online publishing industry is in a bit of a shock from the way things are moving and can’t think originally.

Re:Some ad-blockers are tracking you, shaking down publisher... by belorn on Wednesday March 02, 2016 @04:54PM (#11213348)
Spam blocking on email is currently close to 100%, and yet there is plenty of companies that do news letters and coupons. Stores and services send recommendation emails to customers on a rather regular basis.

I would like to see googles number on how often such services get reported as spam, but I suspect its actually quite low. It helps that you can unsubscribe if you don't want to see it.

Re:Some ad-blockers are tracking you, shaking down publisher... by bduerst on Wednesday March 02, 2016 @06:57PM (#11214075)
Spam can mean many things. Much of spam is the typical phishing, infected attachment, or scam type emails.

Technically in the U.S., if you opt in to receive offers, newsletters, etc. from an organization at some point, this isn't considered spam.

Even if you accidentally opt in, you should have an easy way to unsubscribe. This makes reporting of these types of emails pretty low.

Re:Some ad-blockers are tracking you, shaking down publisher... by Falcon9 on Wednesday March 02, 2016 @05:03PM (#11213395)
You have to keep your spam report numbers very low as the sender of such things, if you want to be allowed to continue to legitimately send them.
Re:Some ad-blockers are tracking you, shaking down publisher... by samsolomon on Wednesday March 02, 2016 @09:04PM (#11214571)
I like this analogy. It would be interesting to see a similar mechanism to banner ads. I'd imagine part of the responsibility would be on the ad network and part of it would be on the publisher.

Showing a bunch of low-quality "1 weird trick ads?" the network gets flagged. Trying to squeeze too many ads onto a single page? Publisher gets flagged.

I doubt we'll see such a thing. On the other hand ad networks like the deck, carbon and yoggrt have done a good job filtering out bad ads. I generally whitelist sites with those networks.

Re:Some ad-blockers are tracking you, shaking down publisher... by belorn on Thursday March 03, 2016 @02:29AM (#11215506)
I too doubt that we will see explicit mechanism for users to manager/report ads on a website, but I do predict that we will keep seeing ads on website even if adblocking reach 100%. For example, online stores normally has a "if you like this product, then you might also like this other thing", a advertisement that I doubt will be blocked any time soon. Similarly, streaming services like to recommend films and music, and that feature is something I hear some people really want to have and would be upset if it went away. Youtube dedicate a lot of page space for this, including the front page, the top of the side panel, the top of the search result, and the end of every video.

The upside of those kind of ads is that they are intended to be both a useful tool for the user and a revenue source, and they must be designed carefully to remain both.

Re:Some ad-blockers are tracking you, shaking down publisher... by r3bl on Wednesday March 02, 2016 @04:13PM (#11213052)
Wired's prediction is even more annoying because they've started begging me to turn off my adblocker last time I visited them a couple of days ago (proof[0]).

If that's the future, why are they not going for it completely before their competitors? Seems like a good strategy to me if they believe in that, doesn't it?

I avoided the adblocking discussions so far, but now that I think about it, I do think that having my adblocking software on actually helps the maintainers of websites. Since I have never clicked on an ad on the Internet intentionally (I only have Internet access for about 7-8 years, Adblock was already a thing back then and I have discovered it before anyone else I know personally), I have never purchased a thing from the Internet after clicking on an ad in my life (having only a European debit card that's not supported by the US-based services kind of helps me out in this case, but it is a huge disadvantage in every other case). By not seeing them, I'm actually improving their click rate a bit, ain't I?

[0] - https://twitter.com/r3bl_/status/704041375562596352

Re:Some ad-blockers are tracking you, shaking down publisher... by wernercd on Wednesday March 02, 2016 @05:42PM (#11213643)
> Wired's prediction is even more annoying because they've started begging me to turn off my adblocker last time I visited them a couple of days ago

Forbes "30 under 30": They don't let you read articles if you adblock... "To read this, you must disable". They create an article security nerds want to read... which then serves up a pop-under adware to steal passwords.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160111/05574633295/forbe...

I lost my compassion after that one. (I didn't get bit... but I had disabled adblock for one or two of their articles temporarily... not again)

Re:Some ad-blockers are tracking you, shaking down publisher... by heroh on Wednesday March 02, 2016 @09:27PM (#11214648)
About 50 tracking, remarketing and generally privacy invasive scripts are executed on your browser [0] when visiting Forbes via their "Ad Light" experience.

Allowing all that scripting to run still didn't let me access the article. I can live without ever going to Forbes.

https://i.imgur.com/W6tYjHF.png

Re:Some ad-blockers are tracking you, shaking down publisher... by rhizome on Thursday March 03, 2016 @02:36AM (#11215523)
I think some sites do cruder checks for the addons themselves, so that whitelisting everything still doesn't work.
Re:Some ad-blockers are tracking you, shaking down publisher... by tanv_nadkarni on Wednesday March 02, 2016 @08:22PM (#11214410)
I dont think they are arguing that the future is better. Also going there today may not mean more money. For example what % of online ad money is being spend today on sponsored content ? That would matter.
Re:Some ad-blockers are tracking you, shaking down publisher... by iSnow on Wednesday March 02, 2016 @04:28PM (#11213158)
>What about stopping the damn profiling which is the root of the problem?

Too late for that. People know now they can avoid getting distracted by ad with a couple of clicks and so they will not go back, profiling or not.

The way forward is clear: some sites experiment with locking you out if you don't pay up or remove ad-blockers. Others will follow if that experiment goes to plan. If it fails, hello sponsored "content".

Re:Some ad-blockers are tracking you, shaking down publisher... by mordae on Wednesday March 02, 2016 @05:08PM (#11213427)
Sponsored content won't get noticed because everyone slowly migrates to HN and Reddit likes. For drive-by reading, Wired and likes either must become extremely relevant or help create some global news reading subscription service...

I have recently subscribed to some serious, paid local news, though. And I pay for LWN for several years now, of course.

Re:Some ad-blockers are tracking you, shaking down publisher... by 551199 on Wednesday March 02, 2016 @05:10PM (#11213439)
Paper magazines have been full of 'ad stories' for a while now. Nowadays I just stop browsing sites that want to show me ads. Most of the articles are waste of time anyway. In the end your time is saved and you can proceed to read a book or do something worthwhile.
Re:Some ad-blockers are tracking you, shaking down publisher... by p4wnc6 on Wednesday March 02, 2016 @04:27PM (#11213156)
I think the MindGeek / Pornhub monopoly demonstrates the lengths to which content providers will go to avoid switching away from ad-based revenue, and also the extreme aversion consumers have to the entire premise of paying for creative content (whether through paid attention to ads or paid dollars to subscriptions).

Not even porn can get many people to prefer a subscription model or stop using adblockers. Good luck to everybody else ...

Re:Some ad-blockers are tracking you, shaking down publisher... by Spivak on Wednesday March 02, 2016 @05:02PM (#11213388)
> Not even porn can get many people to prefer a subscription model

You say this like porn viewers don't have a huge incentive to make sure PORNHUB CO. doesn't appear on their bank statement or that some shadow profile isn't tracking their viewing habits. Hell, private browsing was practically invented for porn and [insert non-porn plausible deniability excuse].

I think the porn industry is in a unique position where if their stance was that highly regulated, completely image based, ads served securely through their domain was the means by which the site was funded while maintaining the viewer's anonymity they could find themselves on a lot of default white-lists.

Re:Some ad-blockers are tracking you, shaking down publisher... by forgetsusername on Wednesday March 02, 2016 @05:43PM (#11213649)
>"porn viewers don't have a huge incentive to make sure PORNHUB CO. doesn't appear on their bank statement"

Do they? I mean, honestly, who isn't a porn viewer? Who on earth would you, personally, think it to be scandalous to have a porn subscription discovered on their credit card? Anybody? What is the incentive?

I thought OP's porn example was pretty good. The entire world crushes porn (even when it's taboo or illegal), and yet still refuses to pay for it.

Re:Some ad-blockers are tracking you, shaking down publisher... by bcoates on Wednesday March 02, 2016 @05:48PM (#11213682)
I'm pretty sure people who have a not terribly high opinion of me would have it lowered still to discover I paid for porn.
Re:Some ad-blockers are tracking you, shaking down publisher... by p4wnc6 on Wednesday March 02, 2016 @06:24PM (#11213903)
Eh, they are probably too busy looking at porn to care.
Re:Some ad-blockers are tracking you, shaking down publisher... by ksenzee on Wednesday March 02, 2016 @07:22PM (#11214187)
> Who isn't a porn viewer?

Believe it or not, there are people who never watch porn. The industry's sleaziness turns some people off, and some people just aren't into it.

Re:Some ad-blockers are tracking you, shaking down publisher... by pjc50 on Thursday March 03, 2016 @05:31AM (#11216029)
I think it's very insular to assume that what you think is normal is the same as what most people think is normal, especially when it's still newspaper scandal material.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/smith-ordered-... : mostly this was about putting the cable TV bill on expenses, but all the papers were particularly outraged at finding PPV porn on the bill.

Re:Some ad-blockers are tracking you, shaking down publisher... by makomk on Wednesday March 02, 2016 @06:10PM (#11213814)
Also, the porn industry's billing practices are sleazy and full of dark patterns.
Re:Some ad-blockers are tracking you, shaking down publisher... by malka on Wednesday March 02, 2016 @06:23PM (#11213896)
another effect of private browsing is that, by default on Chrome, extensions are disabled. Therefore it is possible they suffer less from ad blocking than the rest of the industry.
Re:Some ad-blockers are tracking you, shaking down publisher... by tanv_nadkarni on Wednesday March 02, 2016 @08:20PM (#11214404)
I respectfully disagree.

Native ads are way better ads than say Google ad-sense. I would always prefer them over any other ad format.

Re:Some ad-blockers are tracking you, shaking down publisher... by rpgmaker on Wednesday March 02, 2016 @09:54PM (#11214738)
I think you're confused about what "native" ads means in this discussion. Publishers may have no option but to implement them in the end but that won't be a good development: https://contently.com/strategist/2015/09/08/article-or-ad-wh...
Re:Some ad-blockers are tracking you, shaking down publisher... by tanv_nadkarni on Wednesday March 02, 2016 @10:25PM (#11214840)
I was mostly referring to Taboola/Outbrain styled ads. But if they are without any "sponsored" tag that is even better.
Re:Some ad-blockers are tracking you, shaking down publisher... by Sevrene on Thursday March 03, 2016 @07:24AM (#11216385)
35% seems awfully high. From what I've read it's more like 15-20%, and a large portion of that is younger people, so the demographic for advertising on websites will probably start to shift towards older people if it hasn't already.
Re:Some ad-blockers are tracking you, shaking down publisher... by elorant on Thursday March 03, 2016 @12:30PM (#11218358)
In Greece, where I live, it's 35%. Highest rate in Europe.