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Re:Apple Is Said to Be Working on an iPhone Even It Can’t Hack by gruez on Wednesday February 24, 2016 @08:26PM (#11171734)
>You may not need to crack the OS, or even upload a new firmware. You just need to disable the mechanism that wipes the device and delays how many wrong tries you get. So for example, if you can manage to corrupt, or patch the part of the system that does that, then you can try thousands of PINs without worrying about triggering the timer or wipe, and without needing to upload a whole new firmware.

I disagree. The pin validation is done within the secure enclave. You can't do it outside the secure enclave because the pin is combined with a secret that is burned into the silicon of it. The secure enclave can and will enforce timeouts for repeated failures, as well as refuse to process any pin entries after too many attempts. Disabling the wipes or bypassing the timer won't do you any good when you only have a few attempts.

https://blog.trailofbits.com/2016/02/17/apple-can-comply-wit...

Re:Apple Is Said to Be Working on an iPhone Even It Can’t Hack by cromwellian on Wednesday February 24, 2016 @11:26PM (#11172386)
The state representing the number of attempts must be stored somewhere, and thus a determined adversary could eventually corrupt it.

Look, there's a big difference between trusting known ciphers that have been well studied by the world's top cryptographers, and a proprietary TPM chip that relies on security-through-obscurity.

The history of embedding secrets into black boxes is a history of them being broken. This isn't a theoretical concern, it's a very practical one.

Re:Apple Is Said to Be Working on an iPhone Even It Can’t Hack by Dylan16807 on Thursday February 25, 2016 @10:34AM (#11175069)
The question is not whether a determined adversary could corrupt the counter. The question is whether they can corrupt the counter before they corrupt something else that causes total data loss.

Physical defenses are not security through obscurity, and why you assuming they don't use known ciphers?

Re:Apple Is Said to Be Working on an iPhone Even It Can’t Hack by Piskvorrr on Thursday February 25, 2016 @03:22AM (#11173091)
Kerckhoff's principle should be adhered to if truly secure encryption is desired; alas, then all sorts of hard obstacles pop up (UX becomes a SPOF, most commonly - a secret always needs to be stored somewhere, if only in the user's head).

OTOH, the practical purpose of encryption is to remain unbroken for long enough, not to be completely unbreakable. As seen here, security-through-obscurity is practical enough in cases where user-obtained key material is too weak to provide enough protection using strong publicized crypto. In other words, it's a two-part key: one is in user's wetware, the other in phone's hardware (as per obXKCD, it's usually easier to attack the former).