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Re:Mark Zuckerberg Backs Apple in Its Refusal to Unlock iPhone by timr on Monday February 22, 2016 @10:38PM (#11156325)
Before you get too breathless over this, know that Apple has been unlocking phones for the government, in nearly this exact situation, for a long time now:

http://www.npr.org/2016/02/22/467602161/the-seeds-of-apples-...

This is an entirely new stance from Apple. Historically, they've been on the other side.

Re:Mark Zuckerberg Backs Apple in Its Refusal to Unlock iPhone by themartorana on Monday February 22, 2016 @10:51PM (#11156382)
They were pretty clear that there are major differences in the case in the article you linked to. It's not rare for a company to provide info/help to law enforcement when asked/compelled. It was easy to do on iOS 7. The ask in this case is totally different.
Re:Mark Zuckerberg Backs Apple in Its Refusal to Unlock iPhone by timr on Monday February 22, 2016 @11:18PM (#11156512)
"They were pretty clear that there are major differences in the case in the article you linked to."

No, there really aren't. From the article:

"The cases are different, but the underlying legal question is very similar," says Alex Abdo, a lawyer with the American Civil Liberties Union. "The question in the New York case is whether the government can rely on this very old statute to conscript Apple into government service."

Moreover, the "ask" in this case is nearly identical. Apple is being asked only to bypass the 10-failed-attempt device wipe, so that investigators can enumerate all 10,000 codes:

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2016/02/encryption-isnt-at-stak...

...which means that it's effectively exactly the same thing that Apple has done in previous cases. The only technological difference is one that has been manufactured by Apple.

This whole thing boils down to a question of whether or not Apple should facilitate a brute-force attack on a single phone, under a search warrant, for a known criminal. And they've done same thing 70-some times in the past.

Re:Mark Zuckerberg Backs Apple in Its Refusal to Unlock iPhone by aljones on Monday February 22, 2016 @11:40PM (#11156606)
but it wasn't a brute force attack those 70 times so how is it the same thing?
Re:Mark Zuckerberg Backs Apple in Its Refusal to Unlock iPhone by timr on Tuesday February 23, 2016 @02:32AM (#11157220)
This is also a brute force attack. The terrorist had a four-digit passcode. They're going to try 0000-9999 and find the one that works. They just need Apple to disable the software that wipes the device after ten bad passcode attempts.

Everything that you've read about a "backdoor" or a "key" is totally uninformed commentary on the matter. The intarwebz are outraged (outraged!), but they don't even understand the debate.

Re:Mark Zuckerberg Backs Apple in Its Refusal to Unlock iPhone by MacsHeadroom on Tuesday February 23, 2016 @03:23AM (#11157371)
>this is also a brute force attack

The other times weren't though.

> they don't even understand the debate

Look in a mirror lately?

Re:Mark Zuckerberg Backs Apple in Its Refusal to Unlock iPhone by timr on Tuesday February 23, 2016 @03:30AM (#11157395)
Yes, they were. Apple installed software which brute-forced a four-digit PIN in those other cases, same as what's being asked here.
Re:Mark Zuckerberg Backs Apple in Its Refusal to Unlock iPhone by aljones on Tuesday February 23, 2016 @04:20PM (#11162424)
This is not true. Such tools exist, but are not what Apple used. They just extracted data. It wasn't encrypted so that was all they needed to do.
Re:Mark Zuckerberg Backs Apple in Its Refusal to Unlock iPhone by lern_too_spel on Monday February 22, 2016 @11:21PM (#11156527)
It is just as easy to do in this case. iOS 7 does not include code for extracting data from a locked device. Apple flashed a special build onto those phones to do that. Similarly, Apple is being asked to flash a special build that allows PIN brute-forcing, and if they don't want the build to leave their premises, they've been given the option of brute-forcing the PIN themselves.
Re:Mark Zuckerberg Backs Apple in Its Refusal to Unlock iPhone by aljones on Tuesday February 23, 2016 @12:07AM (#11156716)
The order explicitly requires the cracking tool to not be written to flash.

Just as easy? Maybe if you ignore the effort to create it and secure it. I really can't believe writing secure software is being trivialized in the comments here.

Re:Mark Zuckerberg Backs Apple in Its Refusal to Unlock iPhone by timr on Tuesday February 23, 2016 @02:42AM (#11157238)
That part is exactly the same as what they've done 70-some times previously. They didn't make some FBI agent sit there and tap out 0000 through 9999...they installed a piece of software to do it quickly. The software was signed with their key so that it would install on an iPhone.

The only difference is that this time the software they install would also have to turn off the delete-after-ten-attempts thing.

(You're probably having a hard time with this because the debate sounds absoultely ridiculous when the facts are laid out plainly. Totally understandable. The technical debate is absolutely ridiculous. The legal debate is the only one that matters, but it's not technical at all.)

Re:Mark Zuckerberg Backs Apple in Its Refusal to Unlock iPhone by llamataboot on Monday February 22, 2016 @11:11PM (#11156477)
Arguably, one of the reasons that Apple implemented the security measures they did was to get rid of similar situations. That's why there was kerfluffle about it when they announced it.
Re:Mark Zuckerberg Backs Apple in Its Refusal to Unlock iPhone by EdHominem on Tuesday February 23, 2016 @12:51AM (#11156888)
Not at all, this time would require Apple to literally sign a lie.

Also, before had zero risk of going wrong. This is difficult and already fucked up by the FBI.