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Re:A Message to Our Customers by kevinchen on Wednesday February 17, 2016 @12:21PM (#11119422)
> They wrote the OS, they designed the phone, they know where the JTAG connectors are. Cracking the phone apart and putting is logic board up on a debugger would likely enable them to bypass security.

When a passcode is entered, the SoC queries the Secure Enclave with the passcode. If the passcode is correct, the Secure Enclave responds with the decryption key for the flash storage.

The best Apple could do is sign a malicious update to the Secure Enclave firmware that either removes the time delays or dumps the keys. However, some people suspect the SE erases its secrets on firmware update, although this behavior isn't documented in Apple's security reports.

Re:A Message to Our Customers by conradev on Wednesday February 17, 2016 @02:45PM (#11120659)
> The best Apple could do is sign a malicious update to the Secure Enclave firmware that either removes the time delays or dumps the keys.

Dumping the Secure Enclave would not result in the keys necessary to read the files on the filesystem. Each file has a unique key, which is wrapped by a class key, and for some classes, the class key is wrapped by a key derived from the passcode. If you don't have the passcode, you can't unwrap any of the keys (Page 12 of https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf).

Re:A Message to Our Customers by eru on Thursday February 18, 2016 @02:35AM (#11124286)
You could bruteforce the passcode.
Re:A Message to Our Customers by kevinchen on Monday February 22, 2016 @05:31PM (#11154854)
Yes, if you could recover the SE key (or factory-burned SoC key for older phones), you could crack the passcode on your own cluster rather than being limited to what the phone hardware/software can do.
Re:A Message to Our Customers by conradev on Monday February 22, 2016 @06:48PM (#11155315)
> for older phones

To my knowledge, all keys are still wrapped with the UID, and the UID is still a factory-burned SoC key (not accessible to any firmware). Possible to extract, but not easy to do at scale.

Re:A Message to Our Customers by clay_to_n on Wednesday February 17, 2016 @12:38PM (#11119573)
The phone involved in the San Bernadino case is a 5C, which does not have Secure Enclave.
Re:A Message to Our Customers by cmyr on Wednesday February 17, 2016 @12:33PM (#11119534)
Where have you heard about the erase-on-update feature?
Re:A Message to Our Customers by lololomg on Wednesday February 17, 2016 @05:01PM (#11121804)
The SE doesn't erase-on-update, but you can't update it without unlocking the phone first.