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Re:China's Subprime Crisis Is Here by oliwarner on Wednesday February 17, 2016 @03:41AM (#11116288)
That's a neighbour so there's an obvious local power advantage. It's not unimpressive though and I completely agree about there being a scale and general surplus of engineering prowess that the rest of us just can't comprehend.

What is perhaps more alarming is their development of Africa. I passed through a few African countries last year and China was everywhere. They're in the up-and-coming metropolises like Addis Ababa, they're in despot states like Zimbabwe and they own vast numbers of resource mines in places like Zambia (copper) and Namibia (uranium).

Now almost every sub-Saharan African country has Chinese mining activity.

And the story is the same in all these places. China promises roads and power stations for mining rights, then they do all the work. They ship everything over, including workers. If there is any untrained scrot work for locals, they get paid a tiny fraction of what a Chinese worker would —let that sink in— but anything else is Chinese. There's no local training, no real number of local jobs.

They're investing hundreds of millions in exchange for the infrastructure they use to strip-mine a country.

While we're all fretting about how much cash China has, they have built a resource network that covers half the planet. They have millions of engineers and ton of resources and the political power (the debts of every other major power) to get away with nearly anything.

Re:China's Subprime Crisis Is Here by rosser on Wednesday February 17, 2016 @03:46AM (#11116307)
It's staggering, isn't it?

> They're investing hundreds of millions in exchange for the infrastructure they use to strip-mine a country.

They aren't even investing that much. The equipment is all being bought — from government-owned companies — with government grant money.

They're playing a very long game, and they're incredibly good at it.

Re:China's Subprime Crisis Is Here by oliwarner on Wednesday February 17, 2016 @04:32AM (#11116539)
It's hard to value the actual investment, given all the stuff and people they're investing is all theirs to begin with. There's very little actual cash changing hands. Tax and royalties on mining is often dodged or offset too.

But the "hundreds of millions" is what it would cost a western country to buy [from China]. You're right though, China isn't losing hundreds of millions for the investment. Probably only a tiny fraction of that.

Re:China's Subprime Crisis Is Here by forgetsusername on Wednesday February 17, 2016 @07:27AM (#11117344)
>They're playing a very long game, and they're incredibly good at it.

People underestimate the ability of a country like China to utilize decades of modern economic thought and their willingness to apply it.

Re:China's Subprime Crisis Is Here by dangjc on Wednesday February 17, 2016 @12:15PM (#11119367)
Interestingly, this is a voluntary form of colonialism. An external power comes in, builds a bit of infrastructure, and massively exploits natural resources, with minimal improvement for the local people. Macroeconomically, it also lets them recycle their huge current account surpluses. But this is done without the hassle and expense of a military invasion. The Chinese have it down.
Re:China's Subprime Crisis Is Here by logicchains on Wednesday February 17, 2016 @07:00AM (#11117225)
It somehow reminds me of a letter written by Francis Galton, one of the founders of statistics and coiner of the word "eugenics", about the potential for the Chinese in Africa. http://galton.org/letters/africa-for-chinese/AfricaForTheChi... Note that by today's standards his views are pretty barbaric, so it's not easy reading.
Re:China's Subprime Crisis Is Here by saiya-jin on Wednesday February 17, 2016 @07:26AM (#11117337)
well, and now let's look what their "competitor" (west) have done during those hundreds of years of presence there...

Yes Chinese are not saints but pure capitalists, I see no evil in their actions. On the other hand, white man's actions there were evil on quite a few occasions

Re:China's Subprime Crisis Is Here by puranjay on Wednesday February 17, 2016 @08:07AM (#11117568)
What's more evil: China following unethical economic practices to lift hundreds of millions out of poverty, or China following the rule book and letting hundreds of millions languish in poverty?

From where I stand, China NOT being pure capitalists for the good of their citizens is more evil.

It's well and good when a developed country talks about ethics and capitalism - they have the luxury to. But when a country where millions live in humiliating poverty, don't have enough to eat, and have no hope for the future, it would be far more evil to follow the book and let down these millions.

Re:China's Subprime Crisis Is Here by vkou on Wednesday February 17, 2016 @09:44AM (#11118123)
What kind of poverty is going to be left after the investments are done and the resources are extracted?

Should the people living there leave, like they are leaving Alberta and North Dakota now? Is your country going to take them?

Re:China's Subprime Crisis Is Here by oliwarner on Wednesday February 17, 2016 @08:32AM (#11117678)
You might as well argue that two wrongs make a right.

They don't though. We should all be helping underdeveloped African nations reach a basic level of education, economy and healthcare so they can decide their own future in the world.

As it is, they're being economically suppressed.

Re:China's Subprime Crisis Is Here by logfromblammo on Wednesday February 17, 2016 @03:36PM (#11121112)
Help them how?

The best way I can think of to help a developing nation is to buy the exports of its domestic companies.

Foreign investment into resource extraction sends money in when the goods come out, but then it goes all the way round in the revolving door and comes right back out to pay the foreign investors. (Foreign investment in infrastructure at least leaves the roads/wires/pipes behind when the money goes.)

You want to help Africa? Buy African goods and services from African-owned companies, whenever they are competitive in the world market. Treat them like economic grown-ups, and eventually they will shake off the memory of living in their colonial power's basement apartment and getting a weekly allowance.

Stop sending free money. It just ends up fueling corruption and making local business less competitive.

Africa, like everywhere else, is perfectly capable of addressing and solving its own problems when outsiders aren't constantly intervening in its affairs.

Re:China's Subprime Crisis Is Here by adwf on Wednesday February 17, 2016 @07:50AM (#11117470)
You see no evil, yet. I don't want to know what happens when the latest wannabe dictator comes along and nationalises all the Chinese infrastructure...
Re:China's Subprime Crisis Is Here by epimetheus on Wednesday February 17, 2016 @02:04PM (#11120313)
A pretty short war? I don't see where China would be too worried about a small time dictator? Or was that your point and I missed it? It could be good for Africa for that to happen, have China step in and assume some order, rather than the Chaos that is keeping many of these countries economically down.
Re:China's Subprime Crisis Is Here by adwf on Friday February 19, 2016 @04:30PM (#11136778)
And then we're back to the bad old colonial days which the west gets so criticised for...