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Re:Unilateral Israeli changes to Stuxnet caused its exposure... by x5n1 on Tuesday February 16, 2016 @02:30PM (#11112474)
America has interests and not friends. Israelis understand this. Similarly Israel has interests and not friends. They are interested in protecting their own interests. Even if it costs Americans for them to do so. So you can basically say Israelis learned how to play these games from Americans.
Re:Unilateral Israeli changes to Stuxnet caused its exposure... by BWStearns on Tuesday February 16, 2016 @02:55PM (#11112674)
>> America has interests and not friends

If only we acted that way. Our levels of support to Israel are disproportionate to the benefits we receive. For better or for worse we would in no way tolerate the Israeli level of diplomatic and political sabotage without such a strong pro-Israeli lobby. If it's a moral imperative, then fine, but I've never heard a convincing description of what we're actually getting from the Israelis to justify the rest of the relationship. Just "having a democracy in the Middle East" is not itself useful, especially when literally everyone in the neighborhood wants to kill them. If it weren't for the pro-Israeli lobby they'd be getting the Ukraine treatment, strong words of support, but otherwise they'd be on their own.

Re:Unilateral Israeli changes to Stuxnet caused its exposure... by andybak on Tuesday February 16, 2016 @02:32PM (#11112489)
> So you can basically say Israelis learned how to play these games from Americans.

I think you can probably trace such realpolitik and statecraft back to Mesopotamia and beyond.

Re:Unilateral Israeli changes to Stuxnet caused its exposure... by redthrowaway on Tuesday February 16, 2016 @02:42PM (#11112566)
You can certainly trace it to Prussia/Germany and Bismarck. The "no permanent friends, only permanent interests" line people usually attribute to Kissinger originally came from Lord Palmerston in the 1800s.
Re:Unilateral Israeli changes to Stuxnet caused its exposure... by guelo on Tuesday February 16, 2016 @02:53PM (#11112661)
But Israelis have bought our corruptible political system to the point where all our politicians fight each other to prove who is more of a "friend" to Israel. If the US where acting in its real best interest it would keep Israel at much more of an arm's length. In a way Israel is much more of a dangerous enemy to American democracy than Iran, Russia, China or any other country.
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Re:Unilateral Israeli changes to Stuxnet caused its exposure... by guelo on Tuesday February 16, 2016 @04:01PM (#11113098)
Give me a break. It is not antisemetic to say that AIPAC is one of the most powerful lobbys in DC. Or that people like Sheldon Adelson are central to the election process. I'm not saying it's the only special interest undermining our democracy, I'm saying it's a big one and heavily influenced by a foreign country. If it were a heavily influential China lobby everyone would be freaking out.
Re:Unilateral Israeli changes to Stuxnet caused its exposure... by 13thLetter on Tuesday February 16, 2016 @05:46PM (#11113740)
But you didn't say that AIPAC is powerful (it is) or people like Sheldon Adelson are influential (they are.) You said:

"But Israelis have bought our corruptible political system to the point where all our politicians fight each other to prove who is more of a "friend" to Israel. If the US where acting in its real best interest it would keep Israel at much more of an arm's length. In a way Israel is much more of a dangerous enemy to American democracy than Iran, Russia, China or any other country."

That's a lot more serious than dispassionately noting how one nation among many that has an influential lobby in the United States.

But one other point that is worth considering: American public opinion of Israel is generally around 60% positive, 30% neutral, and 10% negative (source: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/poally...). Is it particularly shocking that politicians go where the votes are? No conspiracy theory required.

Re:Unilateral Israeli changes to Stuxnet caused its exposure... by x5n1 on Tuesday February 16, 2016 @07:00PM (#11114095)
http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-spy-net-on-israel-snares-con...

"Stepped-up NSA eavesdropping revealed to the White House how Mr. Netanyahu and his advisers had leaked details of the U.S.-Iran negotiations—learned through Israeli spying operations—to undermine the talks; coordinated talking points with Jewish-American groups against the deal; and asked undecided lawmakers what it would take to win their votes, according to current and former officials familiar with the intercepts."

Re:Unilateral Israeli changes to Stuxnet caused its exposure... by 13thLetter on Tuesday February 16, 2016 @08:28PM (#11114502)
So... you are incredibly offended about how Israel spied on the United States, and it's fortunate that American spying on Israel revealed this terrible behavior? Or... what? Not sure what you're getting at, here; perhaps you should add a little context to your blind link quoting.
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Re:Unilateral Israeli changes to Stuxnet caused its exposure... by gadders on Tuesday February 16, 2016 @03:35PM (#11112942)
Or maybe people think that Israel is the only liberal democracy in the middle east and surrounded by nations and terrorist organisations that want to wipe it out.
Re:Unilateral Israeli changes to Stuxnet caused its exposure... by obrero on Tuesday February 16, 2016 @05:01PM (#11113463)
> only liberal democracy in the middle east

What a laugh. A Palestinian in Hebron whose family has been there for thousands of years gets no vote, whereas a Jew from Brooklyn who just got off a plane and steals his land does get a vote in the Knesset. This is a democracy? How deluded do you think we all are?