News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:We're hearing about troubles at Nest by asdfologist on Monday February 15, 2016 @04:08PM (#11105983)
Honest question: how did someone with such an abusive management style lead his company to success? I'd think that his employees would just leave and go work elsewhere.
Re:We're hearing about troubles at Nest by potatolicious on Monday February 15, 2016 @04:19PM (#11106080)
Most people (regardless of actual qualification) are bad at finding jobs, and for most people job-hunting is full of anxiety, dread, and in general just a thoroughly unpleasant process.

As an industry we're also pretty terrible at recruiting - people who've figured out how to network effectively and come through the side doors do pretty well, but the bulk of the industry still pursues the model of "see job ad, send resume through front door, quietly wait for call back". This adds to the frustration of job hunting.

Many people also find interviews extremely stressful - our industry makes this worse by sticking them through exhausting full-day marathons full of seemingly pointless trivia.

Not so long ago I was stuck in a horrible job with truly abusive managers. Everyone hated it and commiserated copiously after work (we drank a lot back then), and everyone talked about leaving. Out of the 20-odd people only 4 actually ended up leaving (including me).

When I asked people about it it was nearly universally about anxiety and fear. People loathe interviewing, applying, and all that, to a point where they're willing to put up with a lot of pain just to avoid it.

Re:We're hearing about troubles at Nest by throwaway6497 on Monday February 15, 2016 @05:32PM (#11106549)
Also, most people are supporting a mortgage + one/two kids + spouse. It is easy for a person with FU money to just quit the job on a whim, and search for a new job. A majority of software engineers are still scared of being unemployed. Imagine being without a job in Silicon valley for a few months (high mortgage/rent + kids + spouse). Your savings will deplete fast; It is kind of scary and it is the biggest reason why people put up with abuse till they find a way out.
Re:We're hearing about troubles at Nest by mpdehaan2 on Monday February 15, 2016 @06:06PM (#11106757)
Sometimes companies can be successful in spite of their leadership, because they have people that care about the users and products working under those conditions.

I just imagine how much BETTER those companies could be with more positive leadership though. It's a waste.

If Nest is this way under a tyrant, imagine how it really COULD be, and how many more interesting things they could create.

Re:We're hearing about troubles at Nest by wpietri on Monday February 15, 2016 @04:29PM (#11106162)
If you really want to know, this is the book I'd suggest you start with:

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling/dp/042519...

It's by a guy who was a counselor for abusive men, often ones attending therapy as part of a court order. It is the single most astute book I have read. He spent more than a decade listening to people's bullshit, and in this book he breaks it down brilliantly. Particularly relevant to you are the sections on how abusive relationships benefit abusers and why the abused stay so long.

Re:We're hearing about troubles at Nest by dboreham on Monday February 15, 2016 @04:11PM (#11106006)
Because behaving like this is moderately correlated with success. You don't have to be an asshole to succeed in business, but it can help.
Re:We're hearing about troubles at Nest by asdfologist on Monday February 15, 2016 @04:14PM (#11106033)
Yes but I'm asking how. If you piss off your employees and they leave, how do you grow your business into a multibillion-dollar company?
Re:We're hearing about troubles at Nest by freyr on Monday February 15, 2016 @07:03PM (#11106994)
> how do you grow your business into a multibillion-dollar company?

Many people will allow themselves to be abused at work without doing anything about it. They'll commiserate with their coworkers, or vent on Glassdoor, or fantasize about leaving, but without ever following through.

So some good ones leave, and the rest get ridden hard and work on weekends and stay late to make their managers happy and rich.

Re:We're hearing about troubles at Nest by sliverstorm on Monday February 15, 2016 @06:12PM (#11106778)
You could ask the same questions about abusive intimate relationships.

Cribbing from that "book"- Destroy their sense of self-confidence & self-worth. Pick 'em young- they are easier to fool. Give them brief moments of sunshine to make them hope it'll get better. Promises. Threats. General megalomania.

Re:We're hearing about troubles at Nest by Rapidwire on Monday February 15, 2016 @09:06PM (#11107459)
What book?
Re:We're hearing about troubles at Nest by sliverstorm on Tuesday February 16, 2016 @09:03AM (#11109818)
Like, playbook of running an abusive relationship. Figure of speech
Re:We're hearing about troubles at Nest by bschilke on Monday February 15, 2016 @04:41PM (#11106244)
Could it be that the people that report to a Fadell/Jobs are very talented and are able to absorb the nastiness while motivating employees below them?
Re:We're hearing about troubles at Nest by dboreham on Tuesday February 16, 2016 @05:00PM (#11113458)
Because the net employee flux is positive. You have to be a total utter asshole to lose all your employees, it turns out (like, criminally abusive or just not pay them kind of bad). Being just a moderate asshole however tends to produce more work output from the employees you do manage to retain. So on balance its a win.
Re:We're hearing about troubles at Nest by w1ntermute on Monday February 15, 2016 @04:16PM (#11106061)
Because not that many employees actually left, despite being pissed off. There was no way the Valley élite would let one of their own (Tony Fadell) have a hard fall, so at least a semi-successful exit was guaranteed from the beginning.

The reason why Jobs and Fadell could be assholes and still succeed is because they were/are Jobs/Fadell. That doesn't mean you or I can act like assholes and still succeed. Perhaps we could be assholes after we succeed, but that's a highly unlikely hypothetical.

Re:We're hearing about troubles at Nest by xenadu02 on Monday February 15, 2016 @05:04PM (#11106396)
I'd also point out that Jobs was know to have become less of an asshole by the time he returned to Apple. Some people think it was reconnecting to his family that helped but who knows.

You can demand greatness without being an asshole.

You can tell someone the work they did isn't good enough without being an asshole.

You can also truthfully review someone's bad code without being an asshole, for what it's worth.

Being an asshole != "telling it like it is" though most people confuse the two.

Re:We're hearing about troubles at Nest by potatolicious on Monday February 15, 2016 @05:19PM (#11106476)
> "Being an asshole != "telling it like it is" though most people confuse the two."

This reminds me of an old quote.

"People who are brutally honest generally enjoy the brutality more than the honesty."

Re:We're hearing about troubles at Nest by imron on Monday February 15, 2016 @06:57PM (#11106978)
I heard it as: when you are brutally honest with someone, they will remember the brutality but not the honesty.
Re:We're hearing about troubles at Nest by bobby_9x on Monday February 15, 2016 @05:58PM (#11106703)
I've also seen honesty being confused with being an 'asshole'.

You tell someone something they don't want to hear, but need to hear, and you are now known as an asshole.

Re:We're hearing about troubles at Nest by st3v3r on Monday February 15, 2016 @06:42PM (#11106925)
Not usually. People who do that think they're saying something that someone needs to hear, but they're usually either wrong, or saying it in a manner that does make them an asshole.
Re:We're hearing about troubles at Nest by a3n on Tuesday February 16, 2016 @12:42AM (#11108116)
> People who do that think they're saying something that someone needs to hear

... but usually they're saying something that they want to hear themselves say.

Re:We're hearing about troubles at Nest by bobby_9x on Monday February 15, 2016 @08:09PM (#11107279)
I disagree. Most people don’t want to hear the truth and will take anything they don’t want to hear as a personal attack against them.

I’ve seen it time and time again.. and then pushed out on social media to make the person that said it look like the bad guy...and since it’s usually one person against another, it’s impossible to defend.

This is why when the technology gets cheap enough, I will have a secret body cam on me at all times.

It’s already been proven many times that privacy no longer matters. Hell, a guy got an entire basketball team taken away from him based on private conversations.

Re:We're hearing about troubles at Nest by ezy on Tuesday February 16, 2016 @04:01PM (#11113100)
Speaking of the truth: Sterling lost his basketball team because of private recordings of him being a racist, not hearsay. Then he proceeded to dig a deeper hole publicly. That is: a lapel-camera would not have exonerated him.

Here's some advice, since you think you can take it. When striving to correct others: (a) Make sure you're actually correct (b) make sure you're doing it to reach a common goal, rather than to uplift yourself and (c) understand that a defensive reaction is not a weakness, it's an entirely normal human reaction, and try to empathize with the person as you deliver the hard news.

A lot of people think that others don't want to hear the truth, but it's not that. Most people want to know what's going on. What most people don't want to endure is the embarrassment of being wrong in front of someone -- which is an entirely different thing.

People get corrected on stuff all the time and take it in stride. It's when there is a blow to their ego or you're actually wrong that they get upset. So, you need to either make it clear it's not about them in particular (it usually isn't, hence the "common goal"), and even if it is, you need to make sure they know it's about making them better, not tearing them down. And, you have to be willing to consider counter-arguments -- that is, not pretend you are the sole arbiter of truth.

Bluntly stating an uncomfortable truth (or opinion!) with no quarter is not what people who seek the truth do, it is what people who want to be in control do.

Re:We're hearing about troubles at Nest by st3v3r on Tuesday February 16, 2016 @12:16PM (#11111398)
"This is why when the technology gets cheap enough, I will have a secret body cam on me at all times."

So rather than develop the interpersonal skills that would allow you to say those kinds of things without sounding like an asshole, you're just going to secretly record everyone you run into (which is something that will solidify you as an asshole), and have this video record of you being an asshole to people.

Re:We're hearing about troubles at Nest by dogecoinbase on Tuesday February 16, 2016 @01:52AM (#11108295)
This is why when the technology gets cheap enough, I will have a secret body cam on me at all times.

"...you are now known as an asshole."

Re:We're hearing about troubles at Nest by aledalgrande on Monday February 15, 2016 @04:31PM (#11106178)
I agree. I've seen a*holes who were nobodies, and they went nowhere. This is because he is Tony Fadell.
Re:We're hearing about troubles at Nest by api on Monday February 15, 2016 @05:20PM (#11106485)
While not universally correct, this is true more often than it should be.

My personal opinion is that the answer lies in the more primitive parts of the brain. Investors, acquirers, and customers are all human beings, and as human beings they all respond to primate social dominance cues. Investors fund, acquirers acquire, employees perform for, and customers buy from aggressive dominant alpha males because... well... that's what the alpha wants you to do and your brain stem is telling you to obey them. They are pushing ancient buttons that way pre-date the neocortex.

Again, not universal, but there's a part two:

Some investors invest in these types not because they themselves are taken in, but because they know on average others will be. Could a more quiet, reserved, polite personality -- even a more intelligent one -- have managed to sell a simple cloud-connected thermostat for $3.2 billion dollars? Maybe, but statistically probably not.

This will remain true until we find a way to remove legacy code.

Re:We're hearing about troubles at Nest by PhantomGremlin on Monday February 15, 2016 @10:50PM (#11107784)
how did someone with such an abusive management style lead his company to success?

Lawrence Joseph Ellison has a reputation like that, and his company seems to have done OK.

Many successful companies are founded/led by sociopaths.

Re:We're hearing about troubles at Nest by code777777 on Monday February 15, 2016 @07:02PM (#11106990)
I never met the man, but wasn't Steve Jobs famous for this too?

I've read supposed accounts where he sounded worse than Nest's management.

Re:We're hearing about troubles at Nest by brown9-2 on Monday February 15, 2016 @04:18PM (#11106074)
How are we defining success? As raising capital and being acquired?
Re:We're hearing about troubles at Nest by fivesigma on Monday February 15, 2016 @04:34PM (#11106191)
Success = selling hyped up "smart thermostat" for $3.2 billion
Re:We're hearing about troubles at Nest by vram22 on Monday February 15, 2016 @05:41PM (#11106606)
It happens because people allow it to happen.