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Re:How Low Can Central Banks Go? JPMorgan Reckons Way Lower by obblekk on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @11:00AM (#11073566)
If you borrowed $100 but kept it in a bank account, then you'd be losing to the negative interest rate on that sum too (and friction of having to make regular payments).

The only way to benefit is to borrow and invest that money, which is exactly what the fed wants (with the expectation that productive investments will boost economic growth).

I think the real issue is that if you're paying -5% for a loan. It's rational to invest that into something that returns -1% (and profit by 4%). This means people are incentivized to invest in unproductive resources... Which might be a bad thing in the long run.

Re:How Low Can Central Banks Go? JPMorgan Reckons Way Lower by jaycroft on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @11:07AM (#11073610)
Or borrow and keep a stack of $100 bills under your mattress to be used to pay back a smaller sum at the end of the term?
Re:How Low Can Central Banks Go? JPMorgan Reckons Way Lower by nascentmind on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @11:48AM (#11074007)
Keeping cash under mattress is risky. Why not buy gold(or precious metals)? Movement and hiding it is way easier than $100 bills and transport too is easier. Just wear it as jewellery.
Re:How Low Can Central Banks Go? JPMorgan Reckons Way Lower by 15155 on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @11:13AM (#11073666)
That's why cash must be (gradually) banned, among other reasons. See Germany, Norway.
Re:How Low Can Central Banks Go? JPMorgan Reckons Way Lower by dav-ycombinator on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @11:28AM (#11073788)
No need to ban cash for arbitrarily negative rates to work. Simply introduce an exchange rate between physical currency and deposits.

Simply introduce an exchange rate between the dollar and it's physical representation.

Barriers are largely people's lack of understanding of how this works and how huge the benefits would be for society.

Re:How Low Can Central Banks Go? JPMorgan Reckons Way Lower by dav-ycombinator on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @11:44AM (#11073959)
> Maybe if you think government and society are the same thing.

No, I just think that neutral monetary policy which leads to full employment (defined as natural employment under given tax/regulatory regime) is good for society.

Also good for govt's ability to manage budget, but that's secondary.

Re:How Low Can Central Banks Go? JPMorgan Reckons Way Lower by CyberDildonics on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @11:41AM (#11073923)
> how huge the benefits would be for society

Maybe if you think government and society are the same thing.

Re:How Low Can Central Banks Go? JPMorgan Reckons Way Lower by AnimalMuppet on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @12:25PM (#11074302)
But if you ban cash, you for the same reason also have to ban gold (even jewelry), collectible coins, non-perishable food, and anything else that can be bought and stored as a store of value. Good luck with all that.
Re:How Low Can Central Banks Go? JPMorgan Reckons Way Lower by jaycroft on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @03:57PM (#11075915)
Re:How Low Can Central Banks Go? JPMorgan Reckons Way Lower by jsprogrammer on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @11:28AM (#11073796)
I don't see how that would fly in the US. Off the top, it would seem to violate at least the 1st and 4th amendments to the US Constitution.
Re:How Low Can Central Banks Go? JPMorgan Reckons Way Lower by dragonwriter on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @11:46AM (#11073989)
I'd like to see an argument for that.
Re:How Low Can Central Banks Go? JPMorgan Reckons Way Lower by jsprogrammer on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @04:15PM (#11076031)
Argument for what?

Someone would need to propose a specific law. A law that says 'you may only contract with [insert privileged electronic currency here]" or something similar.

If the enforcement is through confiscation of other currencies it will likely violate 4th amendment protections on personal effects.

If certain contracts are banned (instead of, or in addition to, confiscation) it would violate speech protections. Exchanging money (in any form) is speech, as are your contractual dealings.

Re:How Low Can Central Banks Go? JPMorgan Reckons Way Lower by dragonwriter on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @07:32PM (#11077383)
> Argument for what?

An argument as to how restricting the use of cash (or eliminating the use of cash entirely) inherently conflicts with the first or fourth amendments.

> A law that says 'you may only contract with [insert privileged electronic currency here]" or something similar.

The usual method would be more like "All damages, including -- but not limited to -- those for breach of contracts specifying payment in some other currency, shall be awarded and assessed in [privileged currency] as of the date the debt became due and payable."

> If the enforcement is through confiscation of other currencies it will likely violate 4th amendment protections on personal effects.

That's a creative argument, but, no, Fourth Amendment search and seizure protections do not prohibit confiscation of contraband.

> If certain contracts are banned (instead of, or in addition to, confiscation) it would violate speech protections.

Contracts that are contrary to public policy -- such as those whose fulfillment requires an act prohibited by law -- are generally void for that reason; this is a well-settled principal of law and is not contrary to the First Amendment. The idea that the First Amendment means any contract obligation, without restriction, is immune from prohibition is, well, silly in the extreme.

Re:How Low Can Central Banks Go? JPMorgan Reckons Way Lower by klodolph on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @03:20PM (#11075671)
Read article I section 8.
Re:How Low Can Central Banks Go? JPMorgan Reckons Way Lower by jsprogrammer on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @04:17PM (#11076050)
Congress may make money, collect taxes, and do other things, yes. What is the relevance?
Re:How Low Can Central Banks Go? JPMorgan Reckons Way Lower by klodolph on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @04:45PM (#11076304)
It gives congress the power to regulate the value of cash.
Re:How Low Can Central Banks Go? JPMorgan Reckons Way Lower by jsprogrammer on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @05:53PM (#11076840)
Hmm, I don't remember seeing that. Which clause are you referring to?
Re:How Low Can Central Banks Go? JPMorgan Reckons Way Lower by klodolph on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @08:15PM (#11077589)
"To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof"
Re:How Low Can Central Banks Go? JPMorgan Reckons Way Lower by DanielBMarkham on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @11:37AM (#11073888)
Why wouldn't you just stick it in the mattress? When the loan matures, pay off the principal and keep the rest.
Re:How Low Can Central Banks Go? JPMorgan Reckons Way Lower by pjc50 on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @12:10PM (#11074182)
The risk is people borrowing money at low rates and further pushing up asset prices. Control of interest rates is supposed to influence investment, but it's tied to leveraged asset speculation.

If you could get an interest-only mortgage at zero rates, why wouldn't you buy the largest house the lender would allow?

Re:How Low Can Central Banks Go? JPMorgan Reckons Way Lower by AndrewUnmuted on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @11:28AM (#11073792)
> The only way to benefit is to borrow and invest that money, which is exactly what the fed wants (with the expectation that productive investments will boost economic growth).

Isn't this a foolish proposition, considering the out of control speculation that occurred when interest rates dropped to near-zero? With negative rates, banks will only be rewarded further for acting recklessly.

I think the honest thing to do would be to let all of these irrational and highly-leveraged investment environments collapse so that we can have a chance of starting over with a clean slate.

Re:How Low Can Central Banks Go? JPMorgan Reckons Way Lower by CyberDildonics on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @11:39AM (#11073905)
No wants to be holding the bag when music stops, since that is how politicians lose their jobs.