> The whole thing should be viewed as a horrific embarrassment

Even if her problems are something which can easier provoke empathy in readers here (as in "I could be her") they are insignificant compared to the problems of the people in Iraq in which they are as the effect of the political decisions of the government for which we assume that it did what its duty is and which got the wide support for the war: the US government which according to their own press statements did this "to bring democracy" and "because of WMD" in Iraq. It turned out there were no WMD there and that the "proofs" were a lie.

http://www.salon.com/2015/05/20/george_w_bushs_cia_briefer_a...

The US soldiers who were there are probably the most credible source to talk about what they've actually brought there. For the current results just look at the map that includes ISIS controlled territories:

https://pietervanostaeyen.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/img_50...

And the statistics:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraqi_insurg...

Not to mention neighboring Syria and what's left from the country there.

Are we able to have empathy for the people there too?

Its not about democracy. What the US govt did is fool its citizens by telling them they were going to war over wmd and democracy. US is protecting saudi govt which is not a democracy. And usa did overthrow a democratically elected Iranian govt. So much for wanting to give people democracy.

US has no business meddling in other soverign nation's affair. That nation has people who will bring about a change if they really want change. US doesn't need to force democracy on those people as it ends up only destabilizing the whole region. Trying to change too much at once never flies. Not to forget democracy isn't even the ideal form of govt, especially when US itself isn't improving its own democratic process. First improve things at home.

Its real pity some citizens had to go through this much pain to bring to light illegal mass surveillance activity. I fail to see any difference between an oppressive govt and us govt now a days. This is becoming an orwellian nightmare.

by whole thing I meant the iraq war + downstream consequences; sorry I wasn't clear

Yes, it's truly a polite understatement to call it a "horrific embarrassment". In a reasonable world, many of our software projects would center on the entire countries of people running away from the carnage our murderous rampage caused, what with the inevitable militias fighting over the remains.

But of course refugees are not known for having the social status points we call "money" and obsess over, so the vast majority of us instead work to improve some dude's social point score. Truly a silly system.

Insidious language that "our principles" really means the operating government principles (I'm assuming your personal principles differ).

People are not their "nation"!

And that's why we've seen so much outrage from the American people -- millions of demonstrators, all out on the street, clamoring for justice...

You might want to read the parent comment again, because it was neither white washing or espousing a positive view of torture.

Calling people shills is actually directly laid out in the "what not to do on HN", and the calling the parent one is an egregious misuse of this term.

Shame would probably be a better choice of words, but if you want to castigate people over torture, how about you choose to do it to the ones who made those horrific choices and the ones who supported them.