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Re:Was Uber’s Branding Done While Uber High? by zipwitch on Thursday February 04, 2016 @07:00PM (#11038286)
From a company whose marketing strategy is "act like assholes", with a business plan of "break the law and then whine when anyone points out that we're a bunch of criminals in suits", nothing surprises me anymore, including the fact that they're still in business.
Re:Was Uber’s Branding Done While Uber High? by jrochkind1 on Thursday February 04, 2016 @07:07PM (#11038329)
I still remember when the HN groupthink LOVED Uber.

I am not nostalgic. I like it better this way.

Re:Was Uber’s Branding Done While Uber High? by zanny on Thursday February 04, 2016 @07:39PM (#11038506)
I also hate the regulations they cite as a reason why Uber should not exist.

No, the regulations should not exist. We could have had Uber and more competitors sooner if not for taking calculated legal risk against archaic institutions of regulation surrounding everything today. Almost all progress is a constant battle not against innovation or creativity but against legal traps keeping you from thinking outside the box.

Re:Was Uber’s Branding Done While Uber High? by TazeTSchnitzel on Thursday February 04, 2016 @07:43PM (#11038534)
Why is Uber better than regulated systems? What is superior about poorly-paid drivers, lack of labour rights, surge pricing, lack of disabled accommodations, no guarantee of service in all areas, lack of fare caps, no concessionary travel, having to use a smartphone to pay, unaccredited and unknowledgeable drivers, generic unmarked vehicles, etc.?
Re:Was Uber’s Branding Done While Uber High? by eru on Thursday February 04, 2016 @08:53PM (#11038843)
> What is superior about poorly-paid drivers,

There's a labour market for that.

> lack of labour rights,

That's for the government to deal with.

> surge pricing,

Surge pricing is awesome: at least you can still get a cab if you are willing to pay. As opposed to no cab at any price.

> lack of disabled accommodations,

Yeah, that's annoying for those in need. I propose giving disabled people more money, so they can then vote with their newly enlarged wallets. (And perhaps there's something more efficient for them than enticing taxi drivers.)

> no guarantee of service in all areas,

Why should city dwellers subsidise those yokels?

> lack of fare caps,

As long as the fare structure is known before I get into the cab, no problem.

> no concessionary travel,

Just give poor people more money. No need for concessions. (I've never seen any regulated taxi with concession fares. Only in public transport.)

> having to use a smartphone to pay,

> unaccredited and unknowledgeable drivers,

Not less knowledgeable than most `normal' cabbies, as far as I can tell. But, depends on the area. Eg London has some pretty knowledgeable cabbies.

> generic unmarked vehicles, etc.?

Who cares? You can pay more for an UberBlack, if you want to have a non-generic car.

Re:Was Uber’s Branding Done While Uber High? by dionidium on Thursday February 04, 2016 @09:36PM (#11039030)
I'm a big fan of Uber, but unknowledgeable drivers are a real problem. Here in St. Louis I see a lot of suburbanites coming into the city to drive people to places they've never been. I had one guy try to take me across a bridge that's famously closed for construction. Every cabbie knows that bridge is closed. Shit, everybody on the entire Southside knows that bridge is closed.
Re:Was Uber’s Branding Done While Uber High? by asift on Thursday February 04, 2016 @10:11PM (#11039158)
Uber will reimburse you if your driver screws up. It would be better if they didn't make mistakes in the first place, but this type of accountability never existed among yellow cabs.
Re:Was Uber’s Branding Done While Uber High? by eru on Thursday February 04, 2016 @08:00PM (#11038622)
Drivers are poorly paid in systems that have taxi medallions, too.
Re:Was Uber’s Branding Done While Uber High? by mahyarm on Thursday February 04, 2016 @08:42PM (#11038800)
I would ask a few taxi drivers how their compensation structure works and if they are independent contractors or not.

I asked one in BC, Canada recently, and found out they have to take monthly $100/day taxi lease, minimum 1 month and then make that money + more back with whatever hours they can get. I'm guessing the drivers are 'independent contractors' too.

Re:Was Uber’s Branding Done While Uber High? by asift on Thursday February 04, 2016 @10:09PM (#11039142)
Uber is highly regulated by the forces of market competition. Forces which are far better at protecting and serving consumers than the government.

>What is superior about purely paid drivers?

Low cost of transportation for consumers. No driver is entitled to a job. The efficient movement of goods and people are far more important than preserving jobs from being destroyed by technology that enhances the well-being of society.

Re:Was Uber’s Branding Done While Uber High? by zanny on Thursday February 04, 2016 @11:21PM (#11039395)
Now while I am arguing for significantly reduced regulation around Uber, I would not say markets in general protect or serve consumers better. If markets had their way, anyone could sell a product that claims to do anything else, and if the consumers cannot organize information and catalog what products are fraudulent then people are vulnerable to deception.

That already happens today, in our "tightly regulated" market. Wonder drugs or miracle cures or instant diets or self help books claim to fix everything and do nothing. Drop regulation and it gets worse. Consumers are simply bad at organizing information about businesses, though I would concede that might be partially due to an expectation that "the government will take care of it".

Other things - environmental pollution / destruction (and other secondary costs of business), exploitative employment practices (particularly exploiting the poor and uneducated), using economies of scale to drive out competition, rent seeking, collusion, asset hoarding, and fraud all occur in a natural market and to varying degrees government involvement helps abate some - certainly not all, and certainly not perfectly - these anti-consumer effects of business.

You can look at almost any industry and point at gratuitous and stifling regulation, very often used as shut door tactics by wealthy market players who use force of law to stop competition, because playing in markets usually keeps you honest. Just because Uber is innovative does not exonerate them from how they are playing legal hardball just as bad as many of the companies that preceded them, and if given the opportunity would not erect the same walls to competition their fore-bearers put up. Besides the concerns about workers rights for their drivers, they are actively lobbying cities around the globe to both reduce regulation for themselves and increase it for Lyft or other possible competitors.

Re:Was Uber’s Branding Done While Uber High? by asift on Friday February 05, 2016 @09:04AM (#11041415)
I think you're being too narrow in your conception of what markets do. I'm not denying the existence of snake oil salesman--they absolutely do exist--but there are many ways markets combat such behavior. I suspect much of this gets crowded out by the existing regulatory regime, but it's not hard to envision how it would work outside of the status quo (with substantially less cost to consumers).

Underwriters' Laboratories, Consumer Reports, Amazon Reviews, and Yelp are all good examples of effective, though imperfect, market regulation. Producers have no interest in harming their consumers and consumers have no interest in dealing with producers who will harm them. Everyone has an incentive to find ways to ensure mutually beneficial trade. However, when regulatory regimes are monopolized, a new set of incentives emerge which often have nothing to do with consumer safety. Worst of all, consumers and producers have no means to express their dissatisfaction and exit the regime. This is inherently different from companies like Yelp who must fight on a daily basis to continue delivering value to their customers.

Re:Was Uber’s Branding Done While Uber High? by zanny on Friday February 05, 2016 @09:20AM (#11041527)
Except the whole point of my argument is that while I personally believe in the ethical capacity of fully free markets to work, it requires all participants be informed, intelligent, and educated on how markets work, and they must be rational.

Go walk down the main street of any town in the US and realize how few people are actually educated, or rational, or functional. It is absolutely a product of both culture and the state as it exists that most normal people are raised to become these... zombies? But they are not going to use rational means to pursue products, which is why we have this nanny state consumer production giant looming over everything.

But like I said, we cannot just dissolve those overabundant regulations and growth stifling control with people as stupid as they are. That is just a recipe for pandemic exploitation to degrees even greater than what our current advertising industry pumps out. Just look at how often you hear a story of someone or their kid spending a months worth of wages on some shitty Android game because they were raised to be completely oblivious to obvious swindling.

If we could raise a generation and/or a nation of smart, rational, informed consumers, we could easily replace all the certification and licensing that slows innovation to a crawl with self regulation. Until then we are stuck in a world where people buy self-help books, booze, and Viagra instead of paying off their credit cards.

Re:Was Uber’s Branding Done While Uber High? by jrochkind1 on Saturday February 06, 2016 @08:26AM (#11047671)
> Producers have no interest in harming their consumers

If you mean by 'interest' what I think you do, they have an interest only in making money. They have no more interest in NOT harming their consumers than they do in harming their consumers -- and producers of inherently harmful products (cigarettes being the obvious incontestable example) in fact do have an interest in harming their users. But there are PLENTY of producers who have demonstrated an enthusiasm to harming their users, if it sells product.

Re:Was Uber’s Branding Done While Uber High? by yggydrasily on Thursday February 04, 2016 @08:08PM (#11038661)
Yes, things have dramatically improved, but there are still taboo subjects on HN. For example, try saying any of the same things about YC's own AirBnB and see how that goes over.

In fact, this very article had an early comment[1] comparing Uber's logo re-design to AirBnB's paperclip thingy[2]. That comment is now deleted. No way to tell if it was self-deleted or mod deleted, but either way it seems someone wasn't comfortable having that on here, for whatever reason.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11038131

[2] http://blog.airbnb.com/belong-anywhere

Re:Was Uber’s Branding Done While Uber High? by icebraining on Thursday February 04, 2016 @08:39PM (#11038785)
The most upvoted and commented story about AirBnB is "Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight"[1]. Also in the top 10 are "The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As Users Home Is Utterly Trashed"[2], "Airbnb Victim Speaks Again: Homeless, Scared And Angry"[3] and "Dear AirBNB, No thank you for the XXX Freak Fest"[4]. There are more in the top 20.

A single comment sounds like poor evidence to me.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2820615

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2813956

[3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2820605

[4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7407796

Re:Was Uber’s Branding Done While Uber High? by yggydrasily on Thursday February 04, 2016 @09:25PM (#11038987)
I draw the opposite conclusion, as all of your examples are from several years ago. Three of your four links are more than 1600 days old!

Ever since AirBnB became the most valuable company in YC's portfolio, there has been a remarkable groupthink on HN where everything they do is good and criticism basically vanishes. Yet criticism of a non-YC company like Uber gets upvoted and creates a big dogpile, even when it could be equally applied to both companies.

Re:Was Uber’s Branding Done While Uber High? by icebraining on Friday February 05, 2016 @02:49AM (#11040159)
The "past few years" is a bigger sample than just "the past year", so assuming the posts are equally distributed through time, you're still going to get more of them in the first bucket.

Still, from the top 10 of past year:

"Why Airbnb is dead to me" (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10291070)

"The two faces of Airbnb" (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10487447)

"AirBNB why did you terminate my account? – An Open Letter to AirBNB" (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10090119)

"Living and Dying on Airbnb" (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10531229)

And many of the others in the top are not really about AirBNB itself, just of related topics. I don't see much praise.

Re:Was Uber’s Branding Done While Uber High? by beedogs on Thursday February 04, 2016 @07:21PM (#11038397)
Some of us have hated them all along.
Re:Was Uber’s Branding Done While Uber High? by randycupertino on Thursday February 04, 2016 @07:33PM (#11038463)
I'll have you know I hated Uber before it was cool.
Re:Was Uber’s Branding Done While Uber High? by EGreg on Thursday February 04, 2016 @08:45PM (#11038812)
I'd like everyone here to know that I was always indifferent towards Uber and still am.
Re:Was Uber’s Branding Done While Uber High? by marincounty on Thursday February 04, 2016 @07:41PM (#11038517)
The requirement for a late model, four dour, Uber approved vechicle is brilliant. With this requirement, you exclude a whole socioeconomic sector of the population out of the hiring process. What's ironic is these poeople might be better off?

I didn't quite understand it at first. I looked at the NY Uber approved vechicles, and threw up my hands.

I now get it. Oh, and it's not about car safety.

Re:Was Uber’s Branding Done While Uber High? by YuriNiyazov on Thursday February 04, 2016 @07:57PM (#11038602)
What was there ever to get? Their motto was "everyone's private driver", not "everyone's college buddy with a car"

People with private drivers get driven in expensive cars.

Re:Was Uber’s Branding Done While Uber High? by mahyarm on Thursday February 04, 2016 @08:44PM (#11038807)
It looks like NYC stands out, according to this page it's usually year 2000+ : http://www.idrivewithuber.com/uber-car-requirements/#UberX_C...