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Re:San Francisco Bubble by munificent on Friday January 29, 2016 @12:40PM (#10996828)
> This is why the free market is so great.

I feel like I should just make this my email/social media signature since I say it so often:

A perfect requires these things:

- Perfect market information

- No participant with market power to set prices

- Non intervention by governments

- No barriers to entry or exit

- Equal access to factors of production

- Profit maximization

- No externalities

The less you have those, the less efficient your market is. "Free markets" aren't these magical things that arise on their own in nature. They are carefully crafted and maintained artificial environments and most are far from efficient.

Market forces are not a silver bullet that will solve all problems if we just sit around and wait long enough for the invisible hand to do everything.

Re:San Francisco Bubble by dawnbreez on Friday January 29, 2016 @12:53PM (#10996950)
The reason free markets are great isn't their speed (though they are often faster than your average politician); it's the self-regulating nature of it. You don't have to tell people to stop buying overly-expensive food, nor do you have to tell the food stores to cut their prices. Over time, they each realize that the higher price isn't working; the customer buys elsewhere (either across the street or aceoss the state), and the grocery store lowers its prices until people decide that it's worth it again.

Companies don't have to be told to improve, either, not when their competitors are improving and eating market space. At least, that's how it works in theory. A lot of industries have turned into demilitarized zones, both sides opposed but neither making a move. Telecom is the best example of how bad this gets.

Re:San Francisco Bubble by pjlegato on Friday January 29, 2016 @04:14PM (#10998553)
Telcos are actually a great example of how the free market (eventually) routes around incumbents who fail to satisfy market demand.

The telcos have stalled residential broadband for decades, leaving most of the US stuck with early 2000s-level cable modems or DSL. None of them will make a move.

So what happened? https://fiber.google.com/about/

Re:San Francisco Bubble by angelbob on Saturday January 30, 2016 @07:20PM (#11004524)
I wish you were right. I'm in Fremont, a half hour from Mountain View and Google. Google Fiber's still not available.
Re:San Francisco Bubble by acchow on Friday January 29, 2016 @01:30PM (#10997300)
> Companies don't have to be told to improve, either, not when their competitors are improving and eating market space. At least, that's how it works in theory. A lot of industries have turned into demilitarized zones, both sides opposed but neither making a move. Telecom is the best example of how bad this gets.

And yet even telecoms have invested huge swaths of capital to get us to 3G then LTE.

Re:San Francisco Bubble by dawnbreez on Saturday January 30, 2016 @10:21AM (#11002105)
The problem is that they basically habe a nonaggression pact. You'll find either AT&T or T-Mobile in any given area; not both. This means that, if you don't like their prices or their service...well, what are you gonna do? Build your own telco?

This lack of competition leads to a sort of mini-monopoly, meaning that they basically have no reason to not jack up prices.

That is, until Google comes along and kicks them out, as another comment points out.

Re:San Francisco Bubble by bpchaps on Friday January 29, 2016 @02:03PM (#10997605)
Yeah, okay. Until you hear stories like this.....

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20131012/02124724852/decad...

Re:San Francisco Bubble by davidw on Friday January 29, 2016 @12:55PM (#10996965)
I'm not in the "plug my ears and yell FREE MARKETS" camp, but markets do tend to be a pretty robust solution to many problems even in the face of some imperfections. That's the key point: you never deal with a perfect world, with either markets, or some kind of government intervention.
Re:San Francisco Bubble by spikels on Friday January 29, 2016 @01:04PM (#10997065)
"Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good." All these problems also impact non-market solutions. If fact many ARE non-market solutions to other problems.

The non-market solutions would be something like these:

1 - Price controls

2 - Government approval of business ideas

3 - Rationing non-essentials

4 - Licensing engineers

Re:San Francisco Bubble by danharaj on Friday January 29, 2016 @01:04PM (#10997062)
> - Non intervention by governments

except to define property rights and enforce them, which is kind of significant 'intervention'.

Re:San Francisco Bubble by harmonicon on Friday January 29, 2016 @04:43PM (#10998724)
Great points. Also a "free" market in practice will always tend to lead to extremes. For example, monopolies naturally form when economic power start becoming concentrated. That's why government regulations were put in place.