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Re:Windows Phone is dead by BinaryIdiot on Friday January 29, 2016 @11:15AM (#10996024)
This makes me sad. I've played with Windows Phone a few times and it felt buttery smooth (even my Nexus 6P it still pauses occasionally; granted the pausing on Android gets less and less with each version but I'm still a tiny bit disappointed it still pauses unlike my past iPhones and Windows phone). Their idea for a unified OS across devices is an awesome goal as well. It's really cool to see the latest Windows Phones and watch them plug into a keyboard, mouse and monitor and bam you have the FULL version of Microsoft Office apps and a Windows 10 like desktop.

But in today's market you have to have the apps to succeed. They never really got the apps. It's really disappointing in my opinion.

Re:Windows Phone is dead by wvenable on Friday January 29, 2016 @12:33PM (#10996763)
Microsoft, however, is almost entirely to blame for the lack of apps. They hit the reset button on their platform more times than I can count. They bungled the app store itself. They threw money indiscriminately at developers and filled their store with crap. They could have been the one company that really cares about their store experience but instead they made it worse than all the others.
Re:Windows Phone is dead by dragontamer on Friday January 29, 2016 @05:03PM (#10998868)
7 and 8 were an utter disaster from the mobile front.

They're doing everything correct with 10. Sideloading is possible for free now. Universal apps are truly universal (XAML / C++ compiles into ARM, x86, and x64 simultaneously. C# and Javascript apps run on a VM).

They needed to hit that reset button for 10. It was a mistake to hit the reset button on 7 and 8 however.

Re:Windows Phone is dead by rchaud on Friday January 29, 2016 @11:43AM (#10996271)
>It's really cool to see the latest Windows Phones and watch them plug into a keyboard, mouse and monitor and bam you have the FULL version of Microsoft Office apps and a Windows 10 like desktop.

Cool maybe, but what would be the use case for this? If people think they'll need full Office on the go, chances are they'll take a laptop or Surface-like device with them. Right now they will need their Windows phone as well as a MS display dock, keyboard and mouse, and it will still all be useless unless they are able to find a monitor to plug into. Every workplace or airport lounge I've been to with a PC monitor has VGA/HDMI cables locked in place, and unremovable without a key or without cutting plastic ties.

Re:Windows Phone is dead by BinaryIdiot on Friday January 29, 2016 @11:50AM (#10996328)
> Cool maybe, but what would be the use case for this?

Less stuff to carry around. Since it's brand new there isn't a lot of utility there just yet. Honestly, even though Windows Phone may be dead, I really think this is the future of computing. I mean why bother having a desktop or laptop if you can use your personal device, plug it into different things and get the full experience as if you had a laptop or desktop?

You could go to an airport, plug your phone in and use it like a desktop at one of their tables. Get on the plane and plug it into a screen.

Ultimately I could even see the phone part disappearing and it's a small object you keep on your person that can then connect to various types of devices maybe even wirelessly. This is a great use-case for, in 80 years or however long it takes, when we have computing devices embedded into our bodies. Then we simply touch a screen and we can visualize the data we're carrying.

I stay awake a night thinking about how cool this could be :) (seriously, I even started sketching how to create this type of universality myself but it's such an undertaking and difficult to succeed that I never actually wrote code for this idea but it's certainly one of my favorites)

Re:Windows Phone is dead by st3v3r on Friday January 29, 2016 @01:05PM (#10997077)
"Less stuff to carry around."

You're still going to have to carry around a keyboard, mouse, cables, and probably a screen. It's going to be far, far easier to do that with a laptop/surface, or even a tablet, than with their setup.

"I mean why bother having a desktop or laptop if you can use your personal device, plug it into different things and get the full experience as if you had a laptop or desktop?"

A desktop is going to have more power, a laptop is going to have a form factor that's much more convenient to carry around, and more battery.

Re:Windows Phone is dead by BinaryIdiot on Friday January 29, 2016 @02:20PM (#10997747)
> You're still going to have to carry around a keyboard, mouse, cables, and probably a screen. It's going to be far, far easier to do that with a laptop/surface, or even a tablet, than with their setup.

Um, what? Why would you carry around all that stuff? I clearly described scenarios in which places would already have that setup for you. You just dock and go. Just like today you don't carry a router around with you or anything else.

> A desktop is going to have more power, a laptop is going to have a form factor that's much more convenient to carry around, and more battery.

"More power" doesn't mean anything without context. If you're just writing papers, code, even playing some types of games you likely have plenty of power for this already in your phone. If you want to play FarCry then obviously yes you're not going to do that from a phone.

A phone is more convenient to carry around than a laptop. If someone can supply you a laptop that your phone simply docks with you wouldn't need to carry it around which is precisely my point: the phone (or possibly another, smaller device) could be your personal computing platform and everything else around you simply visualizes the data contained within.

Re:Windows Phone is dead by Someone on Friday January 29, 2016 @05:24PM (#10999008)
I don't think it is a given there really is a market for such devices

Reason? From the situation you describe, it is just a small step to "store everything in the cloud; authenticate with your phone" (most locations with a keyboard, mouse, and monitor that people who can afford a fast phone will visit will have fast internet connections, and will easily have the 10W power budget needed to beat your phone, performance-wise)

You would have to trust the hardware you use, but you have to, anyways, the moment you plug a modern keyboard or monitor into your phone.

Yes, you would be ensured that the software you use on your phone is compatible with the software you use on your 'desktop' because it is the same software, but you also run the risk that it is suboptimal for either (the fonts may be too big for power desktop use, or you might need a pen for manipulating some not-too-often-used controls), and in the 'use phone to authenticate' scenario, you run less risk of running your phone's battery dry.

Re:Windows Phone is dead by BinaryIdiot on Saturday January 30, 2016 @12:26PM (#11002734)
The problem with the cloud approach is you're using and storing data and credentials (even temporary) onto an unknown device. I don't think that'll ever become the norm. Using a phone to handle all this means you only need dumb hardware to hook into (which, again, could be accessed wirelessly) so even if the hardware is compromised there are still security controls in your device to limit the damage.

Ultimately I think the final outcome, which may take many decades to get here, is a device embedded inside of people that give them access to everything they need and if they need another way to interact with the information they'll use some sort of dumb terminal (because if everything is embedded in you and can be accessed easily via some wireless protocol, why would you go through the hassle of a separate authentication step where all your data could be exposed).

Whether there is a market for this today or not I don't really know. I'd love to find out but this is the type of thing that would require quite a bit of start-up capital and an MVP might be difficult to do.

Re:Windows Phone is dead by glhaynes on Friday January 29, 2016 @01:59PM (#10997574)
And people use their phones (which many think of as their "primary computer") all the time while they've got their laptop open. It seems like it would be really frustrating to not be able to use your phone because it's playing laptop CPU at the moment.
Re:Windows Phone is dead by dragonwriter on Friday January 29, 2016 @02:07PM (#10997629)
> I mean why bother having a desktop or laptop if you can use your personal device, plug it into different things and get the full experience as if you had a laptop or desktop?

Right now, tablet + laptop often replaces what I would do a couple decades ago with books (or notepads) + desktop. Sure, a single (powerful enough) CPU with all the various interface form factors being wirelessly-connected dumb systems could work instead, but then, it seems that basic CPU and storage are fairly cheap, and the interface bits -- particular the high resolution touch screens -- are the expensive bits, so there's no real good reason not to put enough brains in the individual devices to let them be standalone rather than relying on a common external brain.

With fairly ubiquitous syncing technology, you get much of the advantage of having a single "brain" device with greater flexibility and resilience against a single-device failure.

Re:Windows Phone is dead by nathanasmith on Friday January 29, 2016 @12:48PM (#10996897)
> I really think this is the future of computing. I mean why bother having a desktop or laptop if you can use your personal device, plug it into different things and get the full experience as if you had a laptop or desktop?

And when you need to make or receive a call? Pull out the bluetooth earpiece (yet another fiddly thing to carry around)? I'd rather just have a tablet and a phone and I think most people would agree.

Re:Windows Phone is dead by BinaryIdiot on Friday January 29, 2016 @02:27PM (#10997813)
> And when you need to make or receive a call? Pull out the bluetooth earpiece (yet another fiddly thing to carry around)? I'd rather just have a tablet and a phone and I think most people would agree.

Bluetooth or just pick up the phone? Especially if it's wireless then you could do it however you wanted. Video chat on a large screen, move the phone to your ear to talk and listen discretely, etc.

Re:Windows Phone is dead by krisdol on Friday January 29, 2016 @12:10PM (#10996519)
> I mean why bother having a desktop or laptop if you can use your personal device, plug it into different things and get the full experience as if you had a laptop or desktop?

You have to hope that those different things are always there to be plugged in to. If not, you have to carry them with you, at which point I'd rather have one bigger device ~~and~~ (correction: ) THAN two pieces to assemble into a smaller device.

Re:Windows Phone is dead by BinaryIdiot on Friday January 29, 2016 @12:21PM (#10996641)
I disagree; what you're talking about would be an issue in today's world but if someone were to come out with a way to re-use a personal computing device (phone today, maybe something else in the future) so that you could have multiple visualizations with it to the point that you would never need to buy another dedicated device again, I think you'd eventually finding that picking up enough traction that it would be everywhere. I mean, why not? Similar to wifi which is pretty much everywhere now.

Ultimately I don't know if it'll be the phone that powers this or if it just simply takes so long that it'll be something else but I would be shocked and supremely disappointed if, by the time I pass, there isn't a way to quickly and easily view your digital information on any screen with or without keyboards in multiple layouts that best fit the screen and purpose.

Re:Windows Phone is dead by varelse on Friday January 29, 2016 @12:20PM (#10996627)
That's a future I think we could have had, but IMO it doesn't look like it's actually coming anytime soon thanks to market fragmentation.

And even if it did, in my experience, working on a machine with remote storage and computation resources in the cloud is anywhere from annoying to nightmarish depending on local latency and bandwidth. Good luck getting the HW/OS/Cloud vendors to come up with a mutually agreeable standard for this.

So I achieve my approximation of that future for myself by carrying around a beefy linux GPU laptop, a trac-ball, and keyboard wherever I go. I'd love to just use my desktop sitting at home as my cloud storage and computation server, but I gave up on that some time ago.

Re:Windows Phone is dead by jimbobimbo on Friday January 29, 2016 @03:26PM (#10998227)
A company I work for, has pretty strict security policies. I have to subject my phone to these, because of calendar and email, but I wouldn't want to subject my personal laptop to these requirements. I can totally see myself hooking up the phone to some dock in order to do things remotely, if necessary.
Re:Windows Phone is dead by Aleman360 on Friday January 29, 2016 @11:52AM (#10996340)
Developing markets where the only computer you have is a phone.
Re:Windows Phone is dead by nathanasmith on Friday January 29, 2016 @01:22PM (#10997222)
I'm picturing myself in a developing country with a phone in hand, thinking about how to go about getting a "computer". Let's see, with this phone, I can go and buy a compatible keyboard and dock, then find a screen that is advanced enough to be compatible with the dock's interface. Or for almost certainly less, I can buy some no-name tablet or basic chromebook or laptop. I would probably go with the tablet/laptop.
Re:Windows Phone is dead by ams6110 on Friday January 29, 2016 @12:18PM (#10996606)
in today's market you have to have the apps to succeed

I'm not sure how true this is. You need some apps, to be sure. But I own an Android phone had have installed less than half-a-dozen apps that it did not come with out of the box.

I use gmail, maps, messenger, calendar, contacts, and web browser (chrome). That's 95% of my phone usage.

I wonder how many users there are that don't play games or use a lot of social media apps. I'd guess a fair number in the 30+ age group. But maybe most of them have stayed with feature phones.

Re:Windows Phone is dead by BinaryIdiot on Friday January 29, 2016 @02:20PM (#10997745)
I think your usage is atypical. If you look at, say, the nielsen stats for app usage[1] the average amount of apps used per user just continues to go up and up and is over 26 apps at this point.

Good integration always provides the best user experience and you need an app to best integrate into someone's phone to provide push notifications, use quick reply type, etc; really to make sure of a phone in the most efficient way possible right now it just has to be an app and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

But look at the apps you mention that you do use: "gmail, maps, messenger, calendar, contacts, and web browser (chrome)"

Windows Phone doesn't have Google Maps so the navigation and overall map experience isn't as good. It doesn't have Chrome so you can't share your bookmarks between all your devices. Without dedicated Google apps it's harder to take full advantage of Google services.

[1] http://www.nielsen.com/us/en/insights/news/2015/so-many-apps...

Re:Windows Phone is dead by valeriob on Saturday January 30, 2016 @02:07PM (#11003228)
You do not need those specific app, you need to access to those services: I use gmail account in wp mail client or web, here maps owns gmap in any way, google calendar has integrated client like contacts.. Pls do not talk without experience
Re:Windows Phone is dead by st3v3r on Friday January 29, 2016 @01:03PM (#10997052)
You don't use apps, but most people do. Instagram, Snapchat, Lyft/Uber to name a few.
Re:Windows Phone is dead by eamann on Friday January 29, 2016 @01:26PM (#10997262)
Instagram and Uber are already on Windows and work just fine ...
Re:Windows Phone is dead by davidgerard on Friday January 29, 2016 @11:57AM (#10996381)
This is the complaint I've heard. Of the few people I know with Windows phones, they loved the phone ... but lamented the utter lack of apps.

So: great interface, but no traction as a platform.

(I've never used it myself. I went from a Blackberry to a Samsung S3mini and now S4mini, and I'm still in "this is so much better than Blackberry" mode.)

Re:Windows Phone is dead by Amezarak on Friday January 29, 2016 @01:21PM (#10997215)
> This is the complaint I've heard. Of the few people I know with Windows phones, they loved the phone ... but lamented the utter lack of apps.

I have a Nokia Icon, and that is indeed my only complaint. The rest of the phone is great.

It's hit or miss. There's a ton of apps out there, even apps you wouldn't think would be out there. I was surprised that Plex and Teamviewer had Windows Phone apps.

Where it falls apart is apps you would think would have a Windows Phone app, but don't. For example, Snapchat or Yik-Yak. Or any Google-made Google apps. In the former cases, the story is even worse than it has to be: for example, there were third-party Snapchat apps, but Snapchat demanded they be removed from the store and still has never made a Windows Phone app. That kind of behavior almost makes me think there's a conspiracy among major app developers to kill Windows Phone. :)

Another area of weakness, of course, is the really small/local apps. My credit union has an Android and an iPhone app, but no Windows Phone app. Same deal with my vet.

I haven't upgraded to Windows 10, because I understand some of the great things about WP 8.1 are now gone. But I think it's really sad WP hasn't done better than it has: it's a fantastic platform devoid of apps. MS really fell down on the job doing whatever they had to do to get major developers on board, which, I think, has mostly been a social issue. From what I've looked at it seems like a great platform to develop for, though I've never made anything but toy apps.

Re:Windows Phone is dead by hotcool on Friday January 29, 2016 @01:04PM (#10997068)
Have you tried the Blackberry Passport?: http://store.shopblackberry.com/store/bbrryus/en_CA/pd/produ...

As a former iPhone and Windows Lumia owner, the Passport is a huge upgrade. Great to read on. It's like using a Kindle or Kobo.

Re:Windows Phone is dead by tacoman on Friday January 29, 2016 @06:07PM (#10999263)
The Passport running BB10 is best computerphone I've ever used. Hopefully BlackBerry continues to at least put out security updates until the hardware is close to obsolete.
Re:Windows Phone is dead by scholia on Friday January 29, 2016 @12:32PM (#10996757)
The main point of Windows 10 phones is to have Universal apps that run on the phone, desktop and laptop PCs and games consoles. If Microsoft gets a billion or so Windows 10 users, it could become a very large ecosystem.....
Re:Windows Phone is dead by wvenable on Friday January 29, 2016 @12:36PM (#10996788)
Except Universal apps are entirely new for Windows 10 -- so it's an empty and new platform that sits alongside regular Windows applications. Developers have to go out of their way to develop for this separate platform in a platform and, from what I've seen, they aren't. I'm still running Windows 8.1 on my devices so I can't even run these universal apps.
Re:Windows Phone is dead by scholia on Friday January 29, 2016 @05:50PM (#10999177)
Sure. You have to start somewhere.
Re:Windows Phone is dead by zeveb on Friday January 29, 2016 @12:25PM (#10996689)
> Their idea for a unified OS across devices is an awesome goal as well.

I have a unified OS across all my devices: Linux. Granted, I don't have a unified UI across all my devices…

I'd love to be able to plug my phone into a keyboard, mouse & monitor and have something like stumpwm available (i.e., something which actually takes advantage of having more than tap, three buttons, volume and power inputs).

Re:Windows Phone is dead by edent on Friday January 29, 2016 @12:37PM (#10996801)
If you're using an Android, get yourself an inexpensive USB-OTG cable. They're usually under £1. You can then plug in a keyboard & mouse (and anything else) to your Android phone.

If you have an MHL compatible device, you can also plug in an HDMI cable and use a bigger screen.

Something like http://amzn.to/1SgkguB will do the job. Of course, you might need to VNC into something to get the UI you want!

Re:Windows Phone is dead by KaterKarlo_02 on Friday January 29, 2016 @01:09PM (#10997104)
Don't be sad. It's not over. The article is a bit dramatic. But I think Microsoft really needs to change the project lead.
Re:Windows Phone is dead by wvenable on Friday January 29, 2016 @04:07PM (#10998503)
Really the last thing Microsoft needs with their phone strategy is more change. It seems like the one product line they aren't willing to slowly refine -- they throw out almost everything every 2 years.
Re:Windows Phone is dead by zamalek on Friday January 29, 2016 @12:19PM (#10996620)
It saddens me to agree with you. I'm not looking forward to the day when I get a new phone. Android and iOS are attention seekers, they ring and ding just so that you don't forget that you need them. Windows just sits in your pocket ready to do real work when it grabs your attention.

It's so liberating; what phones used to be and have become nothing but.

Re:Windows Phone is dead by doodpants on Friday January 29, 2016 @01:22PM (#10997223)
> Android and iOS are attention seekers, they ring and ding just so that you don't forget that you need them.

Er, what? If my iPhone makes a noise, it's only due to:

a) a reminder that I've explicitly set, or

b) a phone call or text message from someone

I'm not aware of any attention-grabbers that aren't from third party apps and can't be disabled. Could you elaborate?