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Re:All Hollowed Out: The lonely poverty of America’s white w... by bane on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @07:52AM (#10930346)
The U.S. economy is geographically spread out and enormous. However, due to various historic reasons, the population is mostly focused at the coasts, and for other historic reasons, the north-west and north-eastern coastal areas are the wealthiest and densest. More people and more money means more demand and higher prices.

In the rest of the country, which is fairly sparse, you can find high standards of living, minus some of the extras you'll find in the rich, dense, coastal areas (extras usually in the form of various culture and activities). However, due to the lack of local demand, the prices are lower.

This creates hugely variable economic conditions on the order of the differences between London/Paris and Budapest.

Housing, like anywhere, dominates living expenses after taxes $30k/yr income looks more like $22k/yr. There are single bedroom apartments, not fantastic, but pretty nice, around where I live that are $2k+/mo. Now you have no money for food, transport, clothing, hobbies, etc. You can find cheaper places for around $1.5k+/mo (there are no housing options here under $1200) but that still leaves you pretty thin with $4k left to spread across the entire year for other necessities.

On the other hand, in Omaha, Nebraska, I found some comparable apartments at $500/mo. Which gives you a little more than $1k/mo for the rest of the year. You'll probably blow through half of that on food and half of that on car expenses (cheap housing in the U.S. implies almost no public transport options) and now you still have no money for savings or hobbies.

The median income in the U.S. is ~$54k/year (about the same as Europe but a hair higher). But that also means children, a couple income earners and so on.

Re:All Hollowed Out: The lonely poverty of America’s white w... by VLM on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @08:38AM (#10930604)
>extras usually in the form of various culture and activities

Note that the average local more or less intentionally can't afford the time or money to visit the tourist traps. If you are not rich and want to visit the museums and galleries of Chicago, or attend a Bears game at the stadium, or a music concert, you can't live in Chicago because then you'd be too poor, you have to live elsewhere and visit.

What dense, expensive, low standard of living areas provide, is extremely dense employment. No matter how unique your job is, there's dozens to thousands of positions within walking distance of your current employer. In the more rural areas you'll see a lot more sinecure behavior, retired in place, people who've worked the same place for 20 years, nobody (such as yourself) gets promoted because the company doesn't grow and nobody quits, etc. Long term relationships are comfortable and lower stress on average, yet also less exciting and less adventurous, just like with love life.

There are also minor behavior constraints. If there's 50 companies all doing the same thing in a big city, then stack ranking basically wastes a lot of HR money pointlessly shuffling people every year, but at least its possible, whereas in a rural area especially if its a company town, stack ranking would rapidly destroy the company because the applicant pool is too small to sustain bad behavior. As a gross generalization people tend to spend far less time commuting in rural areas than urban, but the rural commute has more (high speed) miles so it is more expensive, in the city a twice a day rush hour commute might waste more than two hours of precious life per day, but at least its short therefore cheap, whereas in the country it'll be a comparatively lightning fast 30 minutes each way, but at 80 MPH and 50 cents per mile, that'll be an expensive 40 mile daily commute. City people are amazed how much rural people spend on their commute, rural people are amazed how much time city people spend on their commute.

Re:All Hollowed Out: The lonely poverty of America’s white w... by jahewson on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @11:20AM (#10931682)
> Note that the average local more or less intentionally can't afford the time or money to visit the tourist traps. If you are not rich and want to visit the museums and galleries of Chicago, or attend a Bears game at the stadium, or a music concert, you can't live in Chicago because then you'd be too poor, you have to live elsewhere and visit.

Ah, but that's an American perspective. In Britain museums and art galleries are generally free, for exactly this reason.

Re:All Hollowed Out: The lonely poverty of America’s white w... by cableshaft on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @12:41PM (#10932318)
As someone who lives near Chicago, the museums have a few free admission days for Chicago residents pretty much every month (and some libraries around here let you "check out" free passes).

However, the free days are often during the weekdays and I think during work hours, so lots of working people can't really take advantage of them very often.

Re:All Hollowed Out: The lonely poverty of America’s white w... by VLM on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @12:30PM (#10932229)
Maybe it varies. Last time I was in Dublin, it cost 10e to see the book of kells, the Guiness tour was 20e, etc. Almost nothing was free in Dublin. Admittedly the national art gallery was free although there was a shakedown for "donations".

Yes I know Dublin isn't a suburb of London or whatever, but culturally its not that far away.

Re:All Hollowed Out: The lonely poverty of America’s white w... by theoh on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @04:05PM (#10934021)
In London most major museums are free (with a "shakedown") and have been for about 15 or 20 years. Special exhibitions tend to be charged for.

Ireland's economy and cultural sector is distinct from the UK's and much smaller. The Guinness Brewery and Book of Kells are really exceptional cases which cater to wealthy international tourists. They have little to do with local cultural life.

Re:All Hollowed Out: The lonely poverty of America’s white w... by ild on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @06:15PM (#10934866)
Chicagoland is kinda affordable though, not cheap, but compared to the other major metros is cheaper.
Re:All Hollowed Out: The lonely poverty of America’s white w... by Retric on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @11:03AM (#10931544)
Roommates can make a huge difference in this math. Which is how someone actually making 30k / year can live in the same area where people 'struggle' making 100k/year. The classic tech approach of not actually cooking is also a huge money sink.

PS: You can actually just flat out save 1 million by mid 30's working for big co.

Re:All Hollowed Out: The lonely poverty of America’s white w... by dpark on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @11:51AM (#10931915)
> You can actually just flat out save 1 million by mid 30's working for big co.

Yep, if you're serious about saving, this is entirely doable. I'm not at all on track for this because I'm not dedicated enough. But when I lived and worked in the bay, I knew a couple of guys who saved >50% of their take-home every year. They maxed out their 401Ks in the first few months and then redirected the money to other savings. Someone earning $100K before taxes can absolutely save a million in cash by saving aggressively for a decade and a half.

Hell, my roommate in grad school earned $30K/year and managed to save $10K one year, despite buying a (used) car. This was the result of cheap cost of living and generally just being really frugal.

Re:All Hollowed Out: The lonely poverty of America’s white w... by trendroid on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @09:51AM (#10931078)
>On the other hand, in Omaha, Nebraska, I found some comparable apartments at $500/mo.

This is true for Wisconsin also. I think OP is hitting the right point that many states easily allow you to live comfortably at around 30k p.a. (after taxes). It depends a lot on whether you have a family or not, party a lot or not, materialistic in general or not.

>cheap housing in the U.S. implies almost no public transport options

I am not a citizen but this isn't true for Milwaukee where I have been living for almost 2 years now. I have not needed a car because bus service is awesome and Uber (or Lyft) help me out other times. It also helps if bike tracks are good in your city, so that's another factor to lookout for.

Re:All Hollowed Out: The lonely poverty of America’s white w... by bowlich on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @12:10PM (#10932059)
There is also travel expenses in the U.S. that I don't think occur as frequently in Europe. For example. I have grandparents in Ohio and California. Parents in South Dakota and live in Arizona -- and my employer is in North Carolina. If I want to visit relatives for a holiday I am talking about blowing a grand minimum on airfare or gas, hotels, kenneling for the dogs, food, etc.
Re:All Hollowed Out: The lonely poverty of America’s white w... by 746F7475 on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @09:00AM (#10930761)
Yeah, I guess if your rent is ~2k/mo you can't afford it with 30k/year, but my rent is less than 200€/mo