News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Stop Buying Real Estate in SF by disposition2 on Thursday January 14, 2016 @02:54PM (#10903960)
Not to simplify it but chances are there is more gold in the ground, real estate is the one commodity that is truly finite. Granted, people can always build on unbuilt land but that in turn requires infrastructure, etc to support a new community or residence.

For this reason, it being finite, I wish the US government would set some restrictions on allowing business and foreign investments to purchase residential real estate. It is hard enough (San Francisco seems like a large part of the rest of the US on steroids) for working people to purchase these days...having empty homes bought by non-residents just sit waiting until the prices are forced (due to said) to rise is only going to exacerbate the situation.

Re:Stop Buying Real Estate in SF by vinceguidry on Thursday January 14, 2016 @03:17PM (#10904107)
> real estate is the one commodity that is truly finite

This is untrue in both the literal and figurative senses. In the literal sense, real estate isn't just land, other properties of land, such as mineral or air rights, can also be created, bought, and sold. You can build up and sell condominiums. You can build down. You can dredge land out of the ocean. Eventually you'll be able to build out in space.

In the figurative sense, people make this claim to assert that real estate is becoming rare, and therefore intrinsically valuable. While certain markets definitely are this way, like NYC penthouses, the asset class as a whole is much like it's brethren in this regard. Value is in the eye of the beholder, trends develop rapidly and can bolster or devalue individual properties at breathtaking rates.

Re:Stop Buying Real Estate in SF by dev360 on Thursday January 14, 2016 @07:37PM (#10906124)
I wish startups could tackle actually making affordable home ownership a reality. This is a much larger problem for our generation than what people care to admit.

Specifically, I'm wondering why there are no cheap modular houses (like in movie ex machina). Houses that are mass produced, cheap and relatively easy to ship and assemble but configurable.

Re:Stop Buying Real Estate in SF by KannO on Friday January 15, 2016 @02:07AM (#10907728)
Evolve the idea of what a home is.

Elio motors is offering a small 84MPG vehicle for $6,800. 30 year old Volkswagen Westfalia Campers maintain a high resale value to this very day. Why are all mobile homes so huge? How much money do people spend on rent, leases, mortgages, and buying homes?

I'm sure college students would love a compact mobile home vehicle. Developing countries would likely eat such a thing up.

The CEO of Zappos lives in a trailer park of Airstream trailers and Tumbleweed tiny mobile houses with a shared kitchen, living room and other common areas designed to encourage a true neighborhood / community.

  Or just consider a house as infrastructure. 
  Real estate is assumed to be limited, but that's mostly 
  the result of nimbyism and the gaming of developments 
  sold off on the real estate market as "investments". The 
  whole trend of gentrification will likely play out in 
  less expensive regions of North America and developing 
  countries, and presumably there will be large dense 
  affordable housing somewhere someday and these areas tend 
  to be fertile for creative businesses and cultural 
  experimentation. New York is long stagnate, and it's 
  amazing how much San Fransisco suffers from real estate 
  leaching off of the working population and tech economy.
A home isn't limited to being a house.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac

Re:Stop Buying Real Estate in SF by dev360 on Monday January 18, 2016 @09:45AM (#10924634)
> Evolve the idea of what a home is.

I see what you did there... Now lets try that on my wife.

Re:Stop Buying Real Estate in SF by vinceguidry on Thursday January 14, 2016 @10:12PM (#10906887)
> I wish startups could tackle actually making affordable home ownership a reality.

You're looking at one of the oldest, most capital-intensive markets in existence. It's practically the polar opposite of technology. Not a whole lot startups can really do.

> Specifically, I'm wondering why there are no cheap modular houses (like in movie ex machina). Houses that are mass produced, cheap and relatively easy to ship and assemble but configurable.

Well, that's easy to answer. In most real estate transactions, the cost of the underlying land is going to be the dominant factor, the house is just a value-add, the equivalent of buying a soda with your meal.

Modular houses themselves are at a disadvantage because it's not the cheapest way to put homes on land. Modern stick-framed houses are so cheap to put up these days that once you factor in the R&D, transportation and specialized installation costs, factory-built modular homes are at a severe disadvantage. Construction workers are literally everywhere, the labor is so cheap that it's practically a non-factor.

Also, it's easy to over-build. If developers create a glut, nobody's going to make money for a long time. Prices don't really come down during a glut because the developer would rather let the house sit than sell at a loss. So you get a lot of empty housing stock sitting around.

Re:Stop Buying Real Estate in SF by prostoalex on Friday January 15, 2016 @04:15AM (#10908112)
> You're looking at one of the oldest, most capital-intensive markets in existence. It's practically the polar opposite of technology. Not a whole lot startups can really do.

Well, prefab homes are a thing and they even use the word 'modular' liberally http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/23/prefab-lives... mobile homes are a thing, and are fairly dominant in low-income areas (which kinda sorta impacts the market acceptance of prefab homes). But no one has quite cracked the prefab for multi-family market.

Re:Stop Buying Real Estate in SF by abakker on Friday January 15, 2016 @02:28PM (#10911500)
Re:Stop Buying Real Estate in SF by quesera on Friday January 15, 2016 @12:52AM (#10907484)
> In most real estate transactions, the cost of the underlying land is going to be the dominant factor, the house is just a value-add, the equivalent of buying a soda with your meal.

That's really only common in desirable cities with older housing stock.

A land to total value ratio is considered typical-to-high at 30%. Anything more than that gets extra scrutiny from lenders, who don't want to write residential-class loans on minimally-improved properties.

Re:Stop Buying Real Estate in SF by prostoalex on Friday January 15, 2016 @04:04AM (#10908084)
There have been attempts at container housing http://www.popularmechanics.com/home/how-to/g172/shipping-co...

My understanding is that it's the internals (plumbing, gas lines, heating and A/C, natural gas lines, fireplaces and chimneys) that are hard to modularize.

There's an interesting article by a guy who wrote an entire book on prefab housing http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/23/prefab-lives...

Re:Stop Buying Real Estate in SF by shkkmo on Friday January 15, 2016 @04:07PM (#10912153)
Should home ownership really be the goal?

I've been spending some time recently thinking about alternative options to the rent/buy dichotomy.

Buying a house is in this weird category of quasi-investment that is difficult to offset. In no other market do we encourage consumers to take on debt when making an investment in a commodity. Most consumers are not able to hedge this risk so fluctuations in the housing market can wipe people out and ruin lives.

Renting a house is a whole different problem. The rental market can be very discriminatory, especially against people with poor credit. The friction and lack of information in the rental market prevents many renters from being able price in more than a couple of variables (usually just location and size). The upside of this is that there if little incentive to make certain types of improvements (especially improvements that decrease the utility costs)

It seems that there should be a better way to deal with housing that protects individuals against the risk of mortgages and property bubbles while still aligning the interests of home-owner and home-user.

Re:Stop Buying Real Estate in SF by tomcam on Friday January 15, 2016 @02:46AM (#10907836)
A heaving, throbbing, contradictory, twisted mass of local, state, and government regulations make modular housing like you describe a pipe dream in the USA.
Re:Stop Buying Real Estate in SF by qubex on Thursday January 14, 2016 @03:10PM (#10904067)
Those purchases “by business or foreigners” transfer cash to the seller and be up in the economy anyway. Homeowners who sell do so because it is in their interest to do so, the restriction you propose would be Pareto-inefficient.
Re:Stop Buying Real Estate in SF by sytelus on Thursday January 14, 2016 @05:59PM (#10905457)
Or is it? The money flowed in real estate will most likely immediately get used to buy other houses and there by inflating homes even further. I don't think anyone sells their home and uses the proceeds to buy some stock - the proceeds goes almost always immediately to buy other home. It's like you live in a village, a traveler pays you $100 for a goat which was suppose to be only $10. Then you realize goat is so valuable so you use your $100 to buy two goats from neighbor for $50 each. Now your neighbor realizes what's going on and he uses his new money plus some more buy more goats - all in anticipation that everyone needs goat and prices will keep going up. The virtuous cycle starts and sooner or later major portions of people's money keeps changing hands in form of million dollar goats. Very little of that money might actually get used for other purposes like building the hospital or school because those things don't deliver investment returns like a goat does.
Re:Stop Buying Real Estate in SF by prostoalex on Friday January 15, 2016 @04:01AM (#10908075)
> chances are there is more gold in the ground, real estate is the one commodity that is truly finite

If 432 Park Ave taught us anything it's that one can always build up.