News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:T-Mobile’s Binge On Optimization is Just Throttling, Appl... by TeMPOraL on Monday January 04, 2016 @01:57PM (#10837630)
Here's a cynical view: if those regulations you describe would ever be enacted, "Internet" providers would rename their selective service into "ExtraNet" or something ("now with Super Fast Netflix in Ultra HD!"), with the regular (regulated) Internet access also available, but properly throttled-down. As an ISP trying to provide neutral service, good luck convincing your customers that they're selling shit and yours is the real deal. They're bullshitting the general population now, I don't see how regulating the term "Internet" would stop it (unless the rulings would cover a lot of technical details about connectivity, e.g. if you connect to a third-party IP network, you're part of the Internet, etc.).

RE Free Internet in Poland, the situation is absolutely ridiculous. The company that runs it, Aero2 (they deserve to be named and shamed), is an absolute mockery. Not only they started with the Captcha bullshit[0], they now actually advertise two options - "Free Internet" and "Internet without Captcha". To apply for the free Internet, you had to (around 2012-2014; I'm not certain what the situation is now) be personally present in Warsaw to pick up the SIM card. And pay the deposit. For the free SIM card. They made sure the paperwork is nontrivial, and the procedure not easy to discover - they did exactly what one would do if one had to provide a service but absolutely didn't want to do it. The end result is that most Polish people don't even know this service is available.

I don't even know who to blame more. Our FCC-equivalent (UKE; they're probably the nicest and most easy-going government agency in Poland) had a good idea. But whoever let Aero2 win the bid fucked up, and then the company fucked everything for everyone, and I'm pretty sure they did it on purpose.

[0] - I know. This is because they want their service to be only for personal use, and to get rid of people who download lots of stuff (for whatever "lots" you can download at 256kbps). But in the process, they've managed to fuck up the service and destroy plethora of potential applications - from MiFi equipment (dual-SIM phones are still rare in Poland) to giving your Arduino a data service to non-profit scientific measurement equipment.

Re:T-Mobile’s Binge On Optimization is Just Throttling, Appl... by jwr on Monday January 04, 2016 @02:11PM (#10837740)
> They're bullshitting the general population now, I don't see how regulating the term "Internet" would stop it

While I do see your point, a similar approach worked fairly well for banks, law practices, and medical services, just to name a few. Sure, you can get a crappy deal, but regulation helps to at least roughly separate the wheat from the chaff, and people learned to distinguish between them.

Re:T-Mobile’s Binge On Optimization is Just Throttling, Appl... by pavel_lishin on Monday January 04, 2016 @02:29PM (#10837871)
Do those apples look like those oranges? I might be able to go to Old Tony for my deposits and withdrawals, but can he give me legal advice and represent me in court? Is he allowed to drill my teeth while protesting that he's not a dentist, but a toothologist? I'm fairly certain that he's definitely not allowed to attempt a kidney transplant.
Re:T-Mobile’s Binge On Optimization is Just Throttling, Appl... by zanny on Monday January 04, 2016 @02:33PM (#10837901)
Thats the thing, though. "Umodified" Internet would not be able to be throttled down. Every ISP now is doing traffic shaping when they are setting you fixed arbitrary and often tiered data rates on your lines. That is never the limit of what the physical hardware is capable of, its a number set on their outbound WAN routing servers to accept or deny going in or out to your IP address.

But if you did have a legal definition of Internet requiring unmodified traffic, ISPs selling Internet service would have to, by definition, provide unlimited bandwidth insofar as their physical links are capable of. Which might actually be nice - we already know coax is fully capable of pretty incredible speeds, and being able to push data as fast as you can onto that link would be invaluable.

Of course, that also means the ISP has no requirement to ever upgrade their routing hardware - they would just have cheap stuff running 100% full load 24/7. But then its a consumer choice what ISP you use and whose hardware is best for the money - more expensive ISPs would be offering better routing hardware that can handle higher traffic, and cheaper ones would do the opposite. Well, that would work, if you lived in a sane country where infrastructure like coaxial lines or twisted pair or fiber to the home were public services rather than privately owned and monopoly controlled.

Re:T-Mobile’s Binge On Optimization is Just Throttling, Appl... by TeMPOraL on Monday January 04, 2016 @02:52PM (#10838031)
> That is never the limit of what the physical hardware is capable of, its a number set on their outbound WAN routing servers to accept or deny going in or out to your IP address.

I always believed ISPs were operating at saturation levels.

Off-topic, but a thing I realized now - I have no clue what the real costs for ISPs are. I suppose it's mostly a) electricity, b) amortizing hardware and c) various personnel & paperwork expenses. Is there a comprehensive source that could tell me or help derive just how much my bits cost?

Re:T-Mobile’s Binge On Optimization is Just Throttling, Appl... by scrollaway on Monday January 04, 2016 @04:02PM (#10838572)
You should follow Adrian Kennard's blog: http://www.revk.uk/

He's the CEO of AAISP, arguably the best and most transparent ISP in the UK (also quite a small one).

On costs, there's also contracts with other ISPs (most lines are leased from other ISPs, not leased by the ISP itself), customer hardware (routers and other gadgets), marketing, support, subcontracts for personnel across the country, etc.

Re:T-Mobile’s Binge On Optimization is Just Throttling, Appl... by TeMPOraL on Monday January 04, 2016 @05:08PM (#10839097)
Ah, the XKCD/806-compliant guys? :). I remember that ISP fondly from discussion about UK Internet filtering on HN. Thanks for reminding me about their CEO's blog!
Re:T-Mobile’s Binge On Optimization is Just Throttling, Appl... by scrollaway on Monday January 04, 2016 @10:32PM (#10840931)
Funnily enough, their XKCD806 "compliance" is pretty useless since whenever you call, you get someone who actually has a clue regardless. They don't have call centers. It's really nice, I miss them!
Re:T-Mobile’s Binge On Optimization is Just Throttling, Appl... by TeMPOraL on Tuesday January 05, 2016 @04:08AM (#10842194)
Well, they're technically compliant, and technical compliance is the best compliance! :).
Re:T-Mobile’s Binge On Optimization is Just Throttling, Appl... by rasz_pl on Monday January 04, 2016 @04:13PM (#10838659)
some are, but the saturation is self imposed in order to bypass "peering" agreements and generate extra revenue (Netflix/Comcast for example)
Re:T-Mobile’s Binge On Optimization is Just Throttling, Appl... by derefr on Monday January 04, 2016 @07:10PM (#10839897)
I'd think anyone getting into the business of solely providing actually-the-Internet access could play just as dirty at the PR game. A marketing campaign made "we didn't use hydrocarbon-based pesticides (just enzymatic ones)" into "Organic™"; I don't see why they couldn't make "we don't touch your traffic" into "Secure™" or somesuch.

> They made sure the paperwork is nontrivial, and the procedure not easy to discover - they did exactly what one would do if one had to provide a service but absolutely didn't want to do it.

I would basically describe this as the company doing a "work-to-rule strike." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work-to-rule)

> you had to ... be personally present in Warsaw to pick up the SIM card. And pay the deposit. For the free SIM card.

I'm pretty sure that cell carriers the world over try to put some barrier between people and SIM cards (usually, it's that they cost $10) so that people won't be able to pump through burner SIMs like clockwork. Governments really knowing that whoever a cell carrier gives a SIM to (in exchange for metadata about them) is likely to be the same person who later plugs that SIM into a phone and uses it. Make SIMs "free"—and also easy to get—and individuals will be registering for 50 under different made-up aliases, or people who don't need "their" SIM will register and give it to a friend, etc.

Re:T-Mobile’s Binge On Optimization is Just Throttling, Appl... by yakult on Monday January 04, 2016 @05:44PM (#10839322)
The solution is to have mandatory terms/keyword for internet-but-less. Something like 'partial internet access', which must appear in any promotional material and take up x% of total area a la mandatory cigarette packaging.