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Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by ForHackernews on Monday January 04, 2016 @10:22AM (#10836010)
I don't know whether this is a real difference or not, but Lyft "feels" like a much nicer company than Uber. I'm not thrilled about Lyft's rampant hipster-branding, but Uber seems like a company run by pricks.

Maybe it's just because they're the underdog, but I'm really rooting for Lyft.

Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by crdb on Monday January 04, 2016 @10:49AM (#10836195)
> Uber seems like a company run by pricks

I recently interviewed with Uber in Asia, spoke to a half dozen people there right up to the head of the region and many Americans who have been with the company for years, and I did not get the job (so, clearly not biased towards the company).

Here's my one data point: they were all really nice, professional, competent people I'd actually want to work with. When I say nice, I don't mean polite, but trustworthy and well intentioned.

They are working very hard to cope with the massive growth of their app, trying to figure out how to manage 200 offices in parallel with tiny teams whilst keeping the same quality standards and avoiding unsavoury incidents that come when you hire a large number of people in many locations (imagine what would happen if there was a rape or robbery attempt by an Uber driver). They are under extreme press scrutiny and large amounts of negative PR globally, because they are hitting some of the best organised, most entrenched oligopolies.

Psychologically, it felt like there was a strong sense of family and purpose, that I haven't really seen since I left commodities trading (whose companies are family owned businesses where long careers are common). They were proud of what they were building, genuinely appreciating the value added to the community by their work. The place also felt meritocratic, with people getting expanded responsibility rapidly after proving themselves (based on the career path of the long timers I talked to - could be survivorship bias).

Naturally, I poked a bit towards the "unethical" side of things, suggesting a couple of things as feelers for how they would react. The reaction was overwhelmingly negative - it seems that "dirty tricks" are not looked well in Uber in 2015 at least, fair competition is the name of the game.

So, they impressed me enough as people (after impressing me as a service) that here I am putting up a positive word on HN. I suspect much of the negative press is "black" PR from competitors and threatened interest groups.

Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by aqzman on Monday January 04, 2016 @10:58AM (#10836259)
Just wondering, do you think the fact that you "poked a bit towards the "unethical" side of things" played any part in you not getting the position?
Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by crdb on Monday January 04, 2016 @11:10AM (#10836341)
I wish it was the case (wouldn't that be convenient for my reputation) but it was a more standard culture fit problem, they didn't think we'd work well together. Specifically, the job involved a lot of cross-office coordination and I'm more of a "get the job done", technically focused kind of manager than the more political nature of the managerial role in question (political in the sense that you need to help multiple teams work together harmoniously and efficiently, not House of Cards).

They were quite open with feedback which is another reason I have good feelings towards the company. The whole process was very quick - responses in days. Compared to what my friends tell me about Google's sometimes multi-year process, it's a dream.

I don't know how much I can say about their internal structure but what I found very cool (especially as a former Rocket Internet employee) was their focus on and methods for detecting and spreading knowledge across the entire organisation, which is sort of decentralised even if many important decisions are made in California.

This is something we never got right at Rocket, where companies and regions are much more independent and have wildly differing methods and standards. It was very rare for things to cross over beyond the "startup code" (the PHP e-commerce codebase that is sent over to be deployed when a venture is opened) and some marketing methodology. The other large companies I've been familiar with are better at sharing information, but tend to have a global hub where most of the thinking is done anyway (i.e. knowledge tends to radiate outwards).

Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by hissworks on Monday January 04, 2016 @01:40PM (#10837484)
Thanks for the insights. Sounds like a fair procedure.

Curious to hear more about what you found cool about their communication methods. I've been thinking about this a lot as I'm surprised how inefficient a lot of Big Corp communication methods can be, especially those with a field/regional organization. Inclined to agree that knowledge radiates outwards, but tinkering with ideas about how to best receive feedback inwards and what are the most effective methods of radiating that knowledge. Easier said than done.

Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by crdb on Monday January 04, 2016 @02:04PM (#10837685)
I can't speak specifically about Uber (not sure what is fair to disclose or not) and definitely not about Rocket. However, I can speculate on what I learnt from both. It's not (or not "just") about "communication methods" but an organisational problem.

In the hypothetical case where I'd be running a company like that, I'd want a small team of people who are both technically and operationally extremely able, and personally likeable and politically capable; preferably people who have proven themselves and have credit internally (or such achievements as to reach the same reputation even as an external hire).

I'd task them to overview everything that is happening globally, coordinate trials and experiments so that several hundred could run at the same time globally, and share back information and results across the world. They'd be in effect the repository of knowledge of the company, the institutional memory (so much wheel gets reinvented!) and they most crucially wouldn't be based in HQ in the Bay Area, but a distributed global team constantly roaming and meeting all the local teams. They wouldn't have or need authority to "get things done" by steamrolling over the local office (as the IBM Black Team did [1]), instead convincing them that it's a good idea to try.

They would include specialists in every discipline that is important to the company from finance to statistics, to make sure that there is always at least one team member that can be on the same level as a local specialist (both to avoid taking stupid decisions, and to be credible in conversations).

[1] http://www.t3.org/tangledwebs/07/tw0706.html

Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by Tossrock on Monday January 04, 2016 @11:05PM (#10841102)
> (imagine what would happen if there was a rape or robbery attempt by an Uber driver)

This has already happened: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-34578477

They did some really incredible PR on it (adding the "emergency" button, quick dissociation of the driver and the company, etc), and seem to have gotten off basically scot-free in of public opinion.

Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by crdb on Tuesday January 05, 2016 @02:47AM (#10841912)
Yeah, I discussed that incident as well. They are quite quiet about their security efforts for obvious reasons (you don't want to give criminals hints on how to get away with it) but beyond the obvious dissuasive factor of drivers' identities being known, and bad characters being weeded out quickly by the rating, they were looking into things like comparing path taken by the car with the path it should be taking, flagging up rides to be reviewed and rapidly sent help if necessary.

It's a massive step up from what was available with taxis before. I remember when I worked in Mumbai, getting ripped off systematically until my co-workers helped me find "Meru Cool Cabs" which were always on time, professional and charging my non-Hindi speaking, non-Indian looking self by the meter. That, and trying to haggle on a fare with autorickshaws (resulting in 1 in 20 agreeing - the rest wanted 10x) to go home from the Big Bazaar in Vikhroli, and wondering if the shortest path REALLY has to go through that slum. Wish there had been Uber back then.

Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by bbarn on Monday January 04, 2016 @10:25AM (#10836036)
Think back to Uber's beginning. It was incredibly elitist - only black cars, twice what a taxi cost, etc. Even the name reflects that.

They're almost at parity now though, at the normal person level in Chicago at least. I get nearly killed by either on my bike just as easily :)

Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by acomjean on Monday January 04, 2016 @10:33AM (#10836078)
>I get nearly killed by either on my bike just as easily

Glad I'm not the only one who notices these cars randomly driving slowly or parked in the bike lanes waiting for the next ride to come in.

Ride safe..

Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by myth_buster on Monday January 04, 2016 @11:00AM (#10836264)
They get more distracted by the phones I believe. Specially in between rides when they have to accept ride requests in a timely fashion.

I've seen drivers parked in lots when they are awaiting a request but in places where parking is charged such as downtown, I think they prefer to keep looping around blocks.

There may be an interesting case study to be made on the environmental impact of these idling cars.

Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by amyjess on Monday January 04, 2016 @01:47PM (#10837539)
Also, some drivers are lazy and don't get proper mounts for their phones. I've had a few Lyft drivers spend much of the ride with their faces buried in their phones because they didn't bother to get a mount and don't want their nav to speak out loud.

I also had one reckless idiot spend the whole ride texting while driving, too.

Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by akgerber on Monday January 04, 2016 @10:58AM (#10836256)
In NYC, where Uber/Lyft drivers are required to operate Taxi and Limousine Commission-licensed cars, citizens can file complaints via the web, leading to tickets: https://twitter.com/hashtag/cyclistswithcameras
Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by FatalErrorr on Monday January 04, 2016 @10:24AM (#10836024)
If nothing else, I'm rooting for Lyft so that Uber is not the only one out there. I'm scared of what would happen to service / prices if Uber had no real competition. For that reason, I only use Lyft.
Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by ihsw on Monday January 04, 2016 @11:08AM (#10836324)
Local monopolies are usually the rule rather than the exception, with global monopolies rarely (if ever) occurring.

This makes me wonder if Lyft can leverage the backlash against Uber and achieve success in areas hostile to Uber but not hostile to ridesharing/Car-as-a-Service services.

It is essentially a land-grab but on a global scale, with the measure of success being on-going local dominance on a per city basis. Personally I find it fascinating, the goings-ons of municipalities are usually quite opaque to outsiders and the insight is new.

Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by discodave on Monday January 04, 2016 @01:12PM (#10837251)
Local monopolies are the norm in industries where massive capital investment is required (electricity, cable). Uber is not this type of business. Uber is more like a marketplace (like Amazon or Ebay)... while network effects are strong there is no reason to think that local monopolies are inevitable.

Also, if you catch an Uber in SF or Seattle, the driver is likely to be running Lyft and Uber. Sure, Uber can try to give drivers disincentives to use multiple apps. But good luck doing that AND staying out of anti-trust investigations AND convincing everybody that their drivers are still contractors not employees.

Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by AndrewKemendo on Monday January 04, 2016 @10:25AM (#10836038)
When I was in Colorado Springs, Lyft was much more available than Uber so I used it for the first time after only having ever used Uber for the past year.

The major thing I found different was the driver wanted me to sit in the front and was much more enthusiastic about conversation. It wasn't bad but it was definitely different and somewhat offputting. Not sure if that was just a single event, but I wonder if each company encourages those differences in driver interaction.

Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by dswalter on Monday January 04, 2016 @10:38AM (#10836106)
That convivial atmosphere is one of the things that originally set Lyft apart. More recently, they've tried to figure out how to balance that with people who prefer silence. http://thehub.lyft.com/blog/2015/7/14/giving-betterrides-gre...
Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by ihsw on Monday January 04, 2016 @11:12AM (#10836348)
I have found the exact same thing in Uber drivers -- questions like "How was your day?" are commonplace, and some have chewing gum or other amenities.
Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by bnj on Monday January 04, 2016 @10:38AM (#10836108)
Sounds like a Colorado Springs effect. Here in NYC I've used both fairly evenly and (unsurprisingly) the experiences are fairly similar and in line with the typical "uber" style of sitting in the back and not talking unless you choose to reach out...
Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by omm on Monday January 04, 2016 @10:49AM (#10836191)
From my experience in NYC many drivers drive for both Uber and Lyft. In an anecdotal poll I ran with those drivers, they say Uber riders usually like to be left alone while Lyft riders are more chatty.
Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by dpweb on Monday January 04, 2016 @02:49PM (#10838013)
I've found Uber drivers (all over the country) to be just the right amount of chatty, and very friendly. Haven't tried Lyft yet.
Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by acomjean on Monday January 04, 2016 @10:29AM (#10836059)
I haven't used either, but generally competition is good for the consumer. The option to go the competition always makes things better.

The software business tends to like monopolies as the price to build the first one is usually quite expensive but the cost to build each additional one is fairly cheep. That combined with the more people (drivers and riders in this case) use the software the better it gets leads to fewer big companies with more users.

Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by ape4 on Monday January 04, 2016 @11:23AM (#10836419)
This is a space where "niceness" matters. Since a lot of it is all about human interactions.
Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by pmorici on Monday January 04, 2016 @10:36AM (#10836100)
The big difference for me is that Lyft allows you to tip in the app that's very telling.
Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by tommoor on Monday January 04, 2016 @10:45AM (#10836161)
personally I'd like to see startups help to move us away from a tipping economy, kind of bummed when they added that
Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by pmorici on Monday January 04, 2016 @08:43PM (#10840366)
I'd be fine with no tipping if I thought the drivers were being paid reasonably but I don't think they are.
Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by amyjess on Monday January 04, 2016 @10:40AM (#10836123)
Yes, especially since I've heard horror stories about Uber drivers one-starring customers for not carrying cash.
Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by wavefunction on Monday January 04, 2016 @01:33PM (#10837431)
I suppose I wonder why I would ever want to pay for a service where I will be rated for my qualities as a consumer of that same service.
Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by rconti on Monday January 04, 2016 @04:19PM (#10838707)
I've never heard of anyone tipping an Uber driver. I'm not sure why they'd know if I have cash or not.
Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by morgante on Monday January 04, 2016 @10:45AM (#10836159)
Yes, it's very telling that Lyft offers a suboptimal experience.
Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by amyjess on Monday January 04, 2016 @10:52AM (#10836222)
Not being pressured to carry cash is a suboptimal experience?

I refuse to carry cash. If I were to take Uber, I'd have drivers one-starring me and giving me a bad reputation for not tipping them. With Lyft, I can tip in the app and avoid all that mess.

Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by cballard on Monday January 04, 2016 @11:05AM (#10836303)
You're not supposed to tip Uber drivers, that was one of the main selling points of Uber. The fares are higher than yellow cabs to compensate for that.
Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by dzlobin on Monday January 04, 2016 @12:21PM (#10836844)
UberX is cheaper than yellow cabs in NYC/SF, but otherwise correct.
Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by morgante on Monday January 04, 2016 @11:45AM (#10836584)
I've taken over a hundred Uber rides and literally never tipped. Nor have I ever had a driver who gave me a bad look for not tipping them. It's not expected and Uber actively discourages drivers from soliciting tips.

For the record, my rating was around 4.5 last time I checked so it doesn't seem like drivers are penalizing me for not tipping.

Not having to do the mental/social gymnastics of tipping is a big feature of the Uber experience for me.

Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by amyjess on Monday January 04, 2016 @01:50PM (#10837572)
> For the record, my rating was around 4.5 last time I checked so it doesn't seem like drivers are penalizing me for not tipping.

If you were a driver, a rating of 4.5 could get you kicked off the platform. So, yes, drivers are rating you poorly.

Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by morgante on Monday January 04, 2016 @10:34PM (#10840939)
> If you were a driver, a rating of 4.5 could get you kicked off the platform. So, yes, drivers are rating you poorly.

Except I'm not a driver. 4.5 is, in any realistic rating system, perfectly fine.

Also, why do I care if you think I'm being rated poorly? It's not like it affects my experience in any way.

Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by artursapek on Monday January 04, 2016 @11:07AM (#10836318)
People tip Uber drivers? I've never done it or seen anyone else do it.
Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by serge2k on Monday January 04, 2016 @11:19AM (#10836393)
I wanted to once, didn't have any cash.

It was because the guy let me bring my dog (in her large cage) in his van which was definitely a bit beyond normal.

Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by k-mcgrady on Monday January 04, 2016 @11:06AM (#10836307)
Do you have evidence of this? I didn't think it was possible to find out what drivers rated you and it seems odd that they'd expect a cash tip when the point of the system is that it's cashless.
Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by amyjess on Monday January 04, 2016 @01:40PM (#10837485)
Here's one: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/uber-driver-complaints-e...

> So we compiled a list of seven things you might be doing to annoy your Uber driver and destroy your rating. Avoid these behaviors to ensure a smooth ride for both you and your driver.

> 2. You don't tip.

From one of the biggest Uber driver blogs: http://therideshareguy.com/should-uber-passengers-tip-their-...

> I often see drivers referring to passengers that don’t tip as ‘cheap bastards’ or ‘pieces of shit’

> As a driver, if tips really are important to you, then you need to educate your passengers about how Uber used to pay a better wage and drivers were ok with not accepting tips and now that rates are lower, more and more drivers depend on tips to make a live-able wage.

Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by morgante on Monday January 04, 2016 @10:38PM (#10840959)
You're clearly trying to push some pro-tipping agenda, but if all you can cite is a single Uber driver blog (who of course wants you to tip) that's pretty flimsy evidence.

The vast majority of Uber riders do not tip. [1] There's not an expectation that you do (even the driver blog you cited admits that). I don't really know why you're trying to create this perception that it's expected, but it certainly isn't.

[1] http://www.cnet.com/news/to-tip-or-not-to-tip-drivers-that-i...

Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by ape4 on Monday January 04, 2016 @09:17PM (#10840529)
Just how would a rider tip?
Re:G.M. Invests $500M in Lyft by ebbv on Monday January 04, 2016 @10:25AM (#10836037)
All the evidence that I've seen shows the Uber folks don't care about the law, their drivers or the general public.

I don't know that Lyft is better, but I haven't seen the same level of disregard for others.