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Re:Most violence in the world is motivated by moral sentiments by danharaj on Thursday December 10, 2015 @11:16PM (#10715413)
If you think I'm a barbarian at the gates then honestly I'll stop. Where you say inflammatory, I probably think polarizing. When you say incivility, I wonder why the top-level comment which just trashes a whole group of unnamed people in the most condescending way possible isn't considered uncivil; but I also don't think the top-level comment was problematic. I haven't thought my posts were toxic because they get good replies and they don't get downvote-hidden. If you're saying I bring the wrong kind of conversations to the threads, then that's fine.

Like, I'm not going to tell you how to run this ship because moderation can be a thankless job at the best of times.

Re:Most violence in the world is motivated by moral sentiments by dang on Friday December 11, 2015 @12:35AM (#10715614)
Thank you for replying so politely. Yes, some of your comments—the riled-up ones—have brought the wrong kind of conversation to the threads. I'm confident that you could change that if you wanted to, and would be happy to discuss it by email ([email protected]) if you wanted to.

The combination of ideology with indignation is most destructive of the discourse we want here. That doesn't mean your views aren't welcome. If you would err on the side of courtesy, it would probably solve the problem. Many HN users, including some of the most courteous commenters we have, have gone through a similar transformation. It mostly takes willingness, which comes more easily when you understand the problem the community faces.

The counterargument that matters of high moral importance deserve to be discussed with strong emotion has some truth to it, but only emotion that isn't contaminated with personal abusiveness qualifies. That takes self-discipline, especially in an online forum like HN, where we don't know each other personally, have only sparse signals to go on, and the bias when disagreeing is to fill in the picture uncharitably. To avoid that requires a conscious effort.

Re:Most violence in the world is motivated by moral sentiments by stcredzero on Friday December 11, 2015 @12:45PM (#10718522)
I wonder why the top-level comment which just trashes a whole group of unnamed people in the most condescending way possible isn't considered uncivil

It's because I do not trash an arbitrary group of people. Instead, I condemn very specific emotional states resulting in very specific kinds of behavior -- ones which are specifically recognized as being uncivil and inherently intellectually dishonest. (And if you think otherwise, please provide quotes and justification. As I've noted elsewhere, you have this habit of assuming falsehoods about me and writing them in this thread, and never acknowledging them when called out.)

My understanding of your objection is this: Either you are embarrassed because you do these things, or you feel that I have concocted the above construction to purposely tar certain (unspecified) groups in a dishonest way. Please note that in your comments, you apparently jumped to conclusions about my political views. Can you provide quotes (relevant) which say what they are? (You'll be able to do this somewhat with sibling quotes, but this doesn't logically help you in terms of demonstrating you did not jump to such conclusions.) My objections are to particular psychological states and succumbing to the resulting cognitive distortions. You then proceeded to provide a demonstration of precisely these phenomena! Thank you!

I haven't thought my posts were toxic because they get good replies and they don't get downvote-hidden.

Strange, but some of your longest posts were very clearly downvote-greyed, particularly the most salient one referenced in this thread. This seems counter-factual.

Another falsehood of yours: You stated that I discount emotion. This is another clear example of your jumping to conclusions. Emotion cannot act as an "oracle" but nowhere do I state that it is worthless.

Let's break this down simply. I spoke out against (unspecified) misguided words and actions in the name of "activism" which are motivated by anger and outrage. I say that the same psychological mechanisms that are involved in out-grouping and hate are involved. You then produced a very long post trying to justify (unspecified) words and actions through the magnitude of crimes of oppressors, and apparently did this in a way many interpreted as a personal attack against me. (Then edited, apparently)

I would ask this -- what psychological state are you in, where you can have such a strong reaction to a opinion about unspecified words and actions? What psychological state are you in, where you keep on jumping to conclusions, writing falsehoods, then fail to acknowledge them?

Is it correct to say that you are attempting to defend and justify some prior words and actions of yours which were guided by outrage? Are you defending intellectual dishonesty, stereotyping, and emotional bullying done in the name of a cause? I sincerely hope you are, because in doing so, you have done much for my own cause. (Which is politically neutral and specifically against a particular group-psychological phenomenon.)