News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smart... by Certhas on Tuesday December 08, 2015 @03:12PM (#10699089)
But when they tried to pioneer privacy respecting ads in the new tab window, they were repeatedly and roundly criticised here, too...
Re:Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smart... by epoch1970 on Tuesday December 08, 2015 @03:21PM (#10699167)
That's not the kind of innovation that users want, nor is it the kind that they truly benefit from.

In general, users don't want any ads at all showing in their browser.

They don't want them as part of web pages, they don't want them embedded in videos, and they surely don't want them as part of the browser itself!

This should have been obvious given the popularity of various ad-blocking extensions for Firefox.

Going against the obvious wishes of a product's users is something that's deserving of criticism.

Re:Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smart... by 9mit3t2m9h9a on Tuesday December 08, 2015 @05:15PM (#10700059)
I wanted to see what they would promote — and still was disappointed, as there was no option to show _only_ the promoted links (I prefer to access history by typing a part of the site name into the address bar).

I do block anything that I notice if it looks like a tracker, but I am ready to believe that Mozilla's description of client-side ad selection was correct.

Re:Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smart... by rockdoe on Tuesday December 08, 2015 @04:52PM (#10699845)
Users want to have their cake and eat it too. Following the users wishes when they're self-destructive is bad, and you should feel bad.

Ads are enormously important for a lot of quality content out there to exist. Destroying them now, without good alternatives, is destructive to the web.

Re:Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smart... by rmxt on Tuesday December 08, 2015 @05:19PM (#10700102)
Call the desire to rid the web of ads "destructive" if you please, but don't call those wishes "self-destructive" from the user's perspective. It is completely within the user's prerogative to filter whatever content they wish to filter before it hits their eyeballs. Why should anyone feel bad about choosing what they want to look at it?

For a sort of analogy, the presence of pay-to-read newspapers hasn't precluded the presence of free-to-read newspapers (New York Times vs. Metro [1]), nor has free-to-read papers killed off pay-to-read newspapers, which are generally higher quality. Savvy digital content providers will find a way to still make money, even if it's not ads as they exist today.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_International

Re:Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smart... by rockdoe on Tuesday December 08, 2015 @05:27PM (#10700162)
It's self-destructive because users who don't block ads are keeping sites alive for the users that do block them. If all the users block the ads, the site will need to scramble for a new income model, and for some the new model might not work out.

Seems like a perfect example of self-destructive/tragedy-of-the-commons behavior to me.

Re:Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smart... by xj9 on Tuesday December 08, 2015 @06:31PM (#10700640)
This is a perfect example of a changing market driving out incumbents that have been unable to adapt. The internet is probably better off without them.
Re:Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smart... by ecnahc515 on Tuesday December 08, 2015 @07:01PM (#10700808)
There are plenty of websites which exist that have two options for revenue, either take ads, or make people pay to view your content. Some websites are purely driven by the users' content, and there isn't a real revenue model, so that's what your left with, either the users pay, or someone else does. Bills gotta be paid, but when push comes to shove, users don't pay the bills for a lot of this type of content, so ad's are the only option left.

There is no middle ground. It's not as easy as "your website offers so little that it shouldn't exist", it's simply "users block ads, and they don't want to pay for access", so there's really no great options here.

However, ad's don't have to be pure evil. Sure they might be not be preferred, but we can totally create an environment in which we have non-intrusive, non-privacy invading advertisements, it's just a matter of figuring it out.

Re:Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smart... by danieldk on Wednesday December 09, 2015 @02:07AM (#10702360)
Sure they might be not be preferred, but we can totally create an environment in which we have non-intrusive, non-privacy invading advertisements, it's just a matter of figuring it out.

The ad industry had enough time to figure this out and went from bad to terrible - from popups to distribution of trojans (due to a lack of quality control). It's not surprising that people are fed up with advertisements. Any loss of income is the publisher's own fault, because they allowed ads to get completely out of hand.

Bills gotta be paid, but when push comes to shove, users don't pay the bills for a lot of this type of content, so ad's are the only option left. There is no middle ground.

I am surprised by the lack of imagination on a news site for startups ;). There are all kinds of possibilities that haven't really been explored. Music was considered to be a lost cause 5 or 10 years ago when CD had collapsed and everyone and their dog was using Bittorrent or other peer to peer networks. Now there is a quickly growing ecosystem of streaming music services.

Re:Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smart... by Certhas on Wednesday December 09, 2015 @03:49AM (#10702622)
Sure.

And at one point people just wanted IE compatibility for their webpages to load.

If you accept that targeted ads are a part of the web eco system, then its absolutely within the remit of Mozillas mission to explore how to serve targeted ads while respecting privacy.

Re:Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smart... by bobajeff on Tuesday December 08, 2015 @05:11PM (#10700018)
As a user I really don't care about ads. Unless, of course, they are those annoying hover ads or auto-playing video ads or they slow down the browser.
Re:Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smart... by oconnore on Tuesday December 08, 2015 @06:12PM (#10700512)
So far, informally, every person I've seen write something like this works in marketing, works for a company that makes revenue from advertising, or is somehow monetarily incentivized to have a web where "users" widely agree to view ads. Obviously, there's no causation (perhaps those people naturally gravitate towards fruitful work that doesn't bother them), but it seems to be a pretty reliable (read: so far 100%) correlation.

Are you the combo breaker?

Re:Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smart... by bobajeff on Tuesday December 08, 2015 @06:54PM (#10700771)
No, I don't do any of that stuff. So I guess I'm the combo breaker.

I'm never offended by the presence of ads themselves. Maybe it's because I grew up with them? Maybe I'm just more comfortable with ignoring them?

Re:Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smart... by oconnore on Tuesday December 08, 2015 @09:22PM (#10701483)
Well then, I'll have to adjust my assumptions. Thanks.
Re:Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smart... by Omniusaspirer on Tuesday December 08, 2015 @03:25PM (#10699196)
"Pioneer"? Really? Is the bar so low now that embedding ads into the browser is considered innovative?
Re:Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smart... by rimantas on Tuesday December 08, 2015 @04:05PM (#10699518)
IIRC Opera had it years ago. Maybe even before there was Firefox.
Re:Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smart... by ake1 on Tuesday December 08, 2015 @04:32PM (#10699702)
they had ads but only in the free version, if you bought opera there were no ads.
Re:Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smart... by gsnedders on Tuesday December 08, 2015 @04:43PM (#10699790)
Well… of sorts. The default set on Speed Dial were (and are) sold, which you can easily construe as adverts.
Re:Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smart... by Certhas on Wednesday December 09, 2015 @03:47AM (#10702612)
That's not what they did. They embedded targeted ads that respected your privacy, by having all targeting done client side and not sending information about you back to the server.

That the general public doesn't care about that is one thing, that all the people crtizising them here don't seem to care is another.

Re:Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smart... by cpeterso on Tuesday December 08, 2015 @03:39PM (#10699303)
Showing privacy-respecting ads in the browser does nothing to improve the state of the advertising on the Web itself.
Re:Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smart... by Certhas on Wednesday December 09, 2015 @03:53AM (#10702636)
I'm not saying they didn't make mistakes in the way they did this. If they had introduced a MozAdNetwork for websites that respects your privacy, they would not have faced that backlash in all likelihood.
Re:Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smart... by Retra on Tuesday December 08, 2015 @04:43PM (#10699787)
How is letting someone else pay them to waste my time beyond criticism?