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Re:I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them ... by jacquesm on Monday December 07, 2015 @09:33AM (#10689630)
But calculators actually did negatively impact basic arithmetic skills.

The number of people that can't do 9x14 without reaching for a calculator is scary.

Re:I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them ... by pc86 on Monday December 07, 2015 @09:38AM (#10689662)
To this point is there an easier way to do this than mentally do (9x10)+(9x4), which is what I've done since I was in elementary school (29 now)?
Re:I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them ... by davnicwil on Monday December 07, 2015 @09:45AM (#10689726)
Hmm that's interesting - I'd tend to round one of the numbers, whichever is closest to a '5' or '10', to make an 'easier' multiplication, then add / subtract the extra value lost / gained by rounding.

Example 9 x 14 = (<10> * 14) - ([1] * 14) = 140 - 14 = 126

key: <> easier rounded number [] deal with rounding 'error'

Re:I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them ... by pc86 on Monday December 07, 2015 @09:47AM (#10689748)
I've done that before too, but for whatever reason my mind just defaults to adding two numbers rather than subtracting. Probably either habit or I just find it easier.
Re:I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them ... by pavel_lishin on Monday December 07, 2015 @09:59AM (#10689843)
Weird, I did it the other way - 9x10 + 9x4 = 90 + 36 = 126
Re:I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them ... by VLM on Monday December 07, 2015 @10:31AM (#10690024)
You only have two sig figs at best for an engineering estimate you could get close by rounding up to 10x15 which is 150. The error on both terms is gonna round to about ten so subtract both error factors from the 1st order estimate and get about 150-10-10 aka a decent engineering estimate done in the head to two sig figs is 130. Thats not too far from a calculated answer, only a couple percent off, which is smaller than the measurement error.

The most important estimating still, after manipulation of sig figs is knowing which way to bend for the overall system. So say I'm tiling a kitchen floor or buying paver bricks for a modest sized patio. Well, some raw material is going to be too ugly to use and I'm going to screw up some of the trimming and cutting and I'm going to drop some, and the cost of the gasoline and time to drive out to the home center and buy one more (mismatched) tile or brick is very high, so in that scenario I'd buy the 10x15=150 tiles and hope thats enough (I'm feeling lucky today). On the other hand if I had 9 steel chains each rated (by whom? Static or dynamic loads? Point concentrations or perfectly (LOL) distributed?) to 1400 pounds each, I would round way down for safety's sake and not suspend more than 10 x 10 or 10000 pounds on that platform. Even if the chains are rated properly I only need to screw up or fail four of them and the thing crashes down.

Anyway for engineering purposes 9x14 is somewhere around 100 to 150.

Re:I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them ... by eterm on Monday December 07, 2015 @09:49AM (#10689772)
I find (10x14) - (1x14) = 140 - 14 = 126 slightly quicker and less error prone than carrying the ten across the hundred boundary with 9x10 + 9x4 = 90 + 36 = 126, I'm not an educator though so there may be better ways taught now.

But this is wildly off topic, and in reality I'd rather someone knew how to use their calculator or excel or Python to do this sum than know how to do this sum in their heads.

It's important they know the rough answer in terms of scale and shape, so that any mistype or error is quickly recognised, but I don't think it is important to actually know how to quickly do long multiplication in one's head.

Re:I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them ... by nkrisc on Monday December 07, 2015 @09:46AM (#10689743)
I do the same. However, recognizing you can do that is part of learning arithmetic and problem solving in general. I learned that method at an early age and it taught me that most big, scary problems in general are really just a bunch of small problems that can be identified and solved more easily.
Re:I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them ... by snowwrestler on Monday December 07, 2015 @01:21PM (#10691371)
This is how arithmetic is starting to be taught in elementary schools now, which unfortunately has resulted in those big Facebook blow ups about how "common core" math homework doesn't make sense anymore.
Re:I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them ... by jacquesm on Monday December 07, 2015 @09:48AM (#10689765)
10 times 14 - 14.
Re:I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them ... by neffy on Monday December 07, 2015 @10:20AM (#10689961)
(9* 7) * 2 :)
Re:I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them ... by dagw on Monday December 07, 2015 @09:41AM (#10689699)
But calculators actually did negatively impact basic arithmetic skills.

Sure, but the interesting question is if they negatively impacted math skills.

Re:I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them ... by a-saleh on Tuesday December 08, 2015 @04:41AM (#10695541)
Depends what kind of math skills are you looking for.

I remember my classmate, 1st year at university, that passed one of his classes just because his calculator was capable of precise enough numeric integration.

Next semester he was required to construct proofs as well and he flunked the class.

Re:I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them ... by delecti on Monday December 07, 2015 @09:37AM (#10689654)
The number of people who need to do 9x14 when they have no access to a calculator is pretty much zero.
Re:I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them ... by thearn4 on Monday December 07, 2015 @09:44AM (#10689722)
That's too application focused. The primary value of arithmetic is that it forces you to exercise parts of your mind in a way which would otherwise be difficult.

The same can be said of general mathematics, and literary analysis, etc.

Re:I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them ... by marcosdumay on Monday December 07, 2015 @11:01AM (#10690194)
Hum, basic arithmetics is mechanical repetition. There may be some benefit to the brain in doing it, but I'm doubting it until I get evidence.

The main benefit is that knowing arithmetics well makes higher mathematics easier to learn. That's because one won't get distracted doing calculations. That's still true on the calculator era, just a bit less so, thus I do think it's important to learn arithmetics... It just the "it improves your brain" that I find highly suspect.

Re:I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them ... by untog on Monday December 07, 2015 @09:40AM (#10689682)
That doesn't mean it isn't a valuable skill. Mental arithmetic can also improve other brain skills.
Re:I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them ... by gregweng on Monday December 07, 2015 @10:26AM (#10689996)
No? As an Asian student I have seen countless people try to push their children to exercise arithmetic skills because they believe that does good to their brains. However, it only misleads children to hate "math" and sometimes even their lives based on this the most important subject again and again. Moreover, children would wholly waste their exercised brain on the ruined confidence because some of them just cannot "recite" the patterns well among questions in tests, because you're required to answer too much questions during too short time, which means if you cannot recite the solution patterns from textbook and calculate the answers right at first time, you barely have no chance to try it again. Even those who did excellently in those high-school tests will face another crash at the beginning of university, because the "real math" no matter cares your arithmetic skills, but your abstract thinking and the feeling to grab and deduct rules from axiom. After all, except those real geniuses can conquer these two very different requirements and continuously get payback from that, I don't see any benefits from focusing on arithmetic with so high-strength training.
Re:I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them ... by pc86 on Monday December 07, 2015 @09:39AM (#10689675)
To be fair though, that's the math version of "I don't need to know JavaScript at all because I will always have jQuery." Technically accurate but lazy.
Re:I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them ... by lmm on Monday December 07, 2015 @09:42AM (#10689705)
Javascript or 9x14 is not the kind of knowledge that's valuable for its own sake. http://unreasonable.org/Feynman_and_the_map_of_the_cat
Re:I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them ... by Retra on Monday December 07, 2015 @09:39AM (#10689670)
The number of people who can do it quickly in their head, maybe. I don't know a single adult who would look at that problem and say they don't know how to solve it.

Math is a perishable skill. You get slow at it if you don't use it.

Re:I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them ... by matwood on Monday December 07, 2015 @09:56AM (#10689824)
It is just a matter of remembering the tricks. (9x10) + (9x4)
Re:I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them ... by w8rbt on Monday December 07, 2015 @09:47AM (#10689758)
I do 9 x 14 in my head by breaking it down. I assume others do this too. Anyone should be able to break a problem down (pre or post tech generation) and do the small parts, then put them together to answer the bigger question.

In general, that's the essence of learning. If we stop teaching that, then we're all in trouble ;)

9 x 10 = 90

9 x 4 = 36

90 + 36 = 126

Re:I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them ... by gambiting on Monday December 07, 2015 @09:49AM (#10689771)
Ha, very interesting, I do something very similar, although for multiplication by 9 I would multiply by 10(since it requires no mental effort, you just add a zero at the end) then subtract one. So:

14 x 10 = 140

140 - 14 = 126

Re:I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them ... by theinternetman on Monday December 07, 2015 @09:55AM (#10689822)
> negatively impact basic arithmetic skills

Yep and that skill was rendered completely obsolete. Always remember being told "you won't always have a calculator with you!!" because I couldn't be bothered showing my working on my maths work.

How did that work out... oh everyone now always has calculators with them. Glad I didn't waste my time memorising multiplication tables.