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Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by jernfrost on Thursday December 03, 2015 @05:54PM (#10673345)
This is something that puzzles me. I've met many people like him who I know objectively speak are highly intelligent. But still on many levels they just come across as really stupid. Like they believe in completely wacky ideas or conspiracy theories or make obviously faulty reasoning.

I really have trouble understanding why people can be so smart and stupid and the same time.

Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by overgard on Friday December 04, 2015 @12:47AM (#10674895)
I have a pet theory on this. Smart people tend to go in depth on things in a way the average person doesn't (generally more to laziness rather than capability). The one trait I noticed in smart people is they never just stop at the convenient answer, it has to fit into a coherent world view, and they tend to integrate ideas into larger wholes.

Lets say you try to explain quantum physics to a lay person. We know quantum mechanics is basically correct, but it sounds batshit insane if you try to go directly to the conclusions of quantum mechanics without starting at the first principles. You can't just go from A-Z, you have to go A-B-C...Z. The average lay person just goes from A->"wow quantum physics are weird, murdering cats and stuff"

The thing is, we can believe some of the more outlandish claims of physics because physics is a trusted institution and we know claims are checked, etc, so we don't need to check it ourselves.

So that works for science; because smart people made it work, but what happens with things that aren't science? The same people smart enough to study quantum physics might also be just as interested in politics. So maybe their thoughts start at the mainstream, but they keep growing sideways off it in their own unique branch. In science, these branches get clipped when they're falsified by the community, but other areas don't really have a bar for determining the correctness of a theory, those branches don't necessarily get trimmed.

Anyway, I guess my point is that if you know a very smart person and they're saying something seemingly insane, what you're probably hearing is step Z in their thought process, but for it to make sense you have to hear the preceding chain of thoughts A..Y that led to that. Not to say their theory is right, it probably is loony, but since they probably haven't gotten anyone to critique their A..Y coherently, when they get called a crackpot they probably rightly assume that nobody quite understand what they're getting at.

Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by LiweiZ on Friday December 04, 2015 @03:00AM (#10675196)
Context matters;)
Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by codewritinfool on Saturday December 05, 2015 @01:44PM (#10682820)
Lol murdering cats. Great explanation!
Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by Iarivu on Saturday December 05, 2015 @01:40PM (#10682807)
Outstanding. Clarification
Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by ckozlowski on Friday December 04, 2015 @06:55AM (#10675800)
Nice explanation.
Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by philwelch on Thursday December 03, 2015 @06:54PM (#10673643)
Intelligence and nuttery/crackpottery are two separate things. In fact, intelligence can even enable nuttery because an intelligent nut is better at rationalizing his own nuttery than an unintelligent nut. Someone can be literally a world-class brain surgeon and still believe that the pyramids were constructed to store grain, for instance.
Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by cat-dev-null on Thursday December 03, 2015 @10:54PM (#10674495)
Four factors:

0. Intelligence is hard to "measure;" and even informally, there are mostly inferred attribute from a subject's performance filtered through the viewer's (fallible/biased) perception.

1. There's many domains of intelligence:

- critical thinking (i.e., lawyers) - fact memory - abstract thinking - spatial - problem solving - social - political - emotional

... and far too many others to list.

2. Biases - upbringing, environment, experiences and so on tend to influence a person's preferences and beliefs, and they may be expressing what it is their social group expects or how they view themselves.

3. I'm sure there is at least one belief each of us clings to that others find wacky. Sometimes person don't pick up that a certain view is social unacceptable. Examples:

- The guy in Starbucks with backpack supporting "the missile men of gaza"... de-facto endorsement of terrorism. - I happen to be vegetarian (not driving around with "meat is murder" and slaughterhouse shame pictures)... a lot of people are offended by that and heap on certain biases. - People struggling to survive, yet don't support unions, basic income or higher taxes on large trusts and estates, and are still libertarian "completely unregulated market" types.

Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by frenchy on Thursday December 03, 2015 @10:07PM (#10674348)
> still believe that the pyramids were constructed to store grain, for instance.

But, in civ 2, the pyramids gave you a granary in every city, so obviously they were for storing grain!

Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by rtpg on Friday December 04, 2015 @04:15AM (#10675358)
I really like the idea that Carson played Civ and thus holds this tidbit of knowledge
Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by fab13n on Friday December 04, 2015 @05:16AM (#10675522)
> a world-class brain surgeon can believe that the pyramids were constructed to store grain

Carson is a world-class surgeon trying to convince whatever subset of the Republicans (a) can decide the outcome of the primary and (b) aren't already secured by Trump.

He probably says whatever nonsense he thinks will please rednecks with a 90 IQ and an sinking feeling that "their" country and its core values are being pulled from under their feet.

And I can understand if he's a hard time empathising with people who think that >6k years ago, when pyramids where built, the Earth didn't even exist.

TL;DR: I think/hope he's failing at understanding plebeians, not Life. It might be wishful thinking because I don't want to live in a world where someone could be both so smart and so dumb.

Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by gnoway on Friday December 04, 2015 @08:23AM (#10676137)
This isn't a new position for him, unfortunately. Here's a link to a video[0] of him in 1998 explaining it at a commencement speech.

I guess this could be taken out of context, and he's actually just being sarcastic, but I don't think so.

[0] http://www.buzzfeed.com/natemcdermott/ben-carson-egyptian-py...

Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by dhimes on Friday December 04, 2015 @08:48AM (#10676252)
And I can understand if he's a hard time empathising with people who think that >6k years ago, when pyramids where built, the Earth didn't even exist.

I think he's one of those people, actually. https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/ben-c...

Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by cookiecaper on Friday December 04, 2015 @01:29PM (#10678075)
The problem is that you assume people who feel their country and its core values are being pulled are necessarily 90 IQ rednecks. There are a lot of intelligent socially conservative people. One who can't admit that is brainwashed.
Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by fab13n on Sunday December 06, 2015 @05:07AM (#10684846)
> you assume [conservative] people are necessarily 90 IQ rednecks.

I don't; I assume that the "90 IQ redneck" subset of conservative voters are the ones worth trying to seduce, according to GOP candidates. Because that's whom their political speeches and positions seem targeted towards.

I guess that's because there are many of them, and until recently they've been easier to influence. I must admit there's a bit of shadenfreude in seeing Trump out-rednecking the GOP elite at the game they invented for themselves.

Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by fleitz on Thursday December 03, 2015 @07:48PM (#10673885)
Smart people are outliers, hence their ideas are also outliers. Also, never underestimate the intelligence required to tailor a message to its audience.
Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by colordrops on Friday December 04, 2015 @02:09AM (#10675093)
The comments in this thread are exceptionally ironic.
[dead]
Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by spinchange on Thursday December 03, 2015 @07:27PM (#10673797)
His example is poignant because it falls out of even normative doctrine in the cultural/religious context it's referencing. It's like a double-inconsistency and yet...the guy can separate conjoined twins at the head. (Shaking mine.)
Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by brownbat on Thursday December 03, 2015 @08:23PM (#10674026)
Two hunches:

1) Expertise may cause certain types of bias.

Recent studies have examined this idea of "earned dogmatism": the idea that once you gain expertise in something, your ego builds, and that actually makes you less open minded and less able to revise or challenge your existing beliefs.[0]

2) Overcoming bias is different than overcoming ignorance. Categorically different, and perhaps massively harder.

A different study found expert philosophers exhibiting cognitive biases at the same rate as nonprofessionals, even when dealing with undergraduate-level philosophy problems.[1]

[0] http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022103115...

[1] http://cushmanlab.fas.harvard.edu/docs/schwitzgebel&cushman_...

Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by rooster8 on Thursday December 03, 2015 @08:51PM (#10674102)
Some smart people carry the scars of having accidentally hurt someone's feelings in conversation by inadvertently making them feel dumb.

Consequently, some smart people choose to play down their intelligence during conversation because it's disarming to do so, and they want to help people feel at ease.

Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by chipz on Monday December 07, 2015 @03:21AM (#10688400)
Good point, never think of it.
Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by sotojuan on Thursday December 03, 2015 @06:09PM (#10673421)
I see this a lot. You could argue RMS fits this category. I don't think he's stupid, but somewhat strange for someone who could've been a first rate Physics or Computer Science researcher.

A few weeks ago someone commented how some academic was disappointed that Gates had become an entrepreneur, calling it a "waste". It is interesting to think about what him, Ballmer, or Stallman would've done in academia.

Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by soofaloofa on Thursday December 03, 2015 @10:49PM (#10674474)
Microsoft now employs 118,584 people with many of them working in research laboratories. Had Gates pursued academia he could have at best accomplished a fraction of what he has.
Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by Polyphonie on Saturday December 05, 2015 @03:16AM (#10681277)
That's 118,584 - 7,800 employees that were laid off in July or 2015 (the 118K number was from March 2015).
Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by enraged_camel on Thursday December 03, 2015 @06:53PM (#10673641)
>>It is interesting to think about what [Gates], Ballmer, or Stallman would've done in academia.

Considering the current state of academia and the many articles regularly posted here, they probably would have burned out and left. That would have been the real waste in my opinion.

Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by cgag on Thursday December 03, 2015 @08:06PM (#10673957)
Seems like a strange argument to make given RMS' gigantic impact on the world.
Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by sotojuan on Thursday December 03, 2015 @09:44PM (#10674262)
Good point. I should not devalue his work (nor Gates' or Ballmer's), but it is nonetheless interesting to think about.
Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by josephcooney on Thursday December 03, 2015 @06:55PM (#10673650)
Let's not even start on ESR.
Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by sfilipov on Thursday December 03, 2015 @07:41PM (#10673862)
Who (or what) is ESR?
Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by angersock on Thursday December 03, 2015 @10:36PM (#10674429)
Eric Scott Raymond, a very bright and often abrasive person.

Wrote Cathedral and the Bazaar, and was responsible for a lot of the realpolitik and branding that got Open Source to where it is today.

Had varying amounts of a hand in gpsd, ncurses, reposturgeon, and various other tools people actually use.

The big problem is that his worldview is exceptionally conservative culture war while at the same time being fairly social liberal. If something isn't productive to expanding Western Civilization (by his definition), for whatever reason, it must go. This includes Islam, this includes a lot of SJW theory, this includes homosexuals (not out of malice, but because they by definition can't make more population), and so forth.

He's quite interesting to read, and he makes very interesting points--unfortunately, if you have a visceral reaction to his politics it is quite hard to bear him.

He also has an annoying habit of claiming expertise and skills that aren't quite there, such as forensic critique of a police shooting.

"Interesting insufferable intellectual independent" would be my classification of him.

Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by moron4hire on Friday December 04, 2015 @07:22AM (#10675900)
Eeeeh, have you ever actually met the guy? Cuz I have and I came to the conclusion that he does have a lot of overt malice towards almost all minorities. He's just like every other old, bigotted white dude. He and my grandfather and father-in-law would get along quite well.

He literally believes that black people are biologically incapable of being as smart as white people and that they are genetically predisposed to violent behavior.

His delusions even extend to his own health status. He thinks he could use martial arts to beat up an intruder on his house. The guy has cerebral palsy so bad he can barely stand. It'd be tragic if he wasn't such a dick.

Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by PhantomGremlin on Monday December 07, 2015 @09:46PM (#10694447)
Eric Scott Raymond

It's Eric Steven Raymond. That Scott fellow has a Wiki entry but it's not who you're talking about.

Here's the ESR guy's Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_S._Raymond

Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by darkr on Friday December 04, 2015 @02:55AM (#10675180)
Some guy who wrote a HOWTO on cunnilingus
Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by adl on Thursday December 03, 2015 @08:19PM (#10674015)
Erick S. Raymond: http://esr.ibiblio.org/

Author of the Cathedral and the Bazaar.

Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by pdpi on Thursday December 03, 2015 @08:00PM (#10673932)
Eric S Raymond, wrote The Cathedral and the Bazaar, co-founder of the OSI (Open Source Initiative)
Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by marincounty on Friday December 04, 2015 @03:50AM (#10675294)
I have seen this phenomenon a few times. I think because they got so much positive reinforcement early on; they feel at ease spouting off their wacky theories? After all, they are geniuses. They are allowed to say what ever comes to mind, but only later in life? After they carved out a comfortable life?

I've seen the same behavior in way too many wealthy individuals. Just because they are filthy rich; they can spout off whatever comes to mind, and we give them a get out of jail card because we assume intelligence equates with wealth. Trump comes to mind.

I don't know much about Balmer. I just saw a huge, out of shape guy, playing cheerleader for Gates. Sorry--it's just what I saw on the tube. It was obvious Apple, and open source was going to trounce Microsoft. I do think Balmer saw the fall of Microsoft comming--maybe before Gates? Hell--I'm being modest--we all hated Microsoft. He did his best at milking a sinking ship. That is genius, but wouldn't a simpleton do the same?

I have met very few geniuses who were wealthy. The extremely smart individuals, I have known, or watched, did not become very wealthy. Their intelligence seemed to hold them back in too many situations, or maybe they had a higher level of integrity? That integrity that needs to be broken/desimated in too many business situations? That integrity that need to be twisted when becoming very wealthy? What really bothers me most is way too many of the best students/best minds had nervous breakdowns. I have seen too many great people just crack?

I wish we would stop calling these guys geniuses just because they are wealthy in business. It's getting old.

Now the guy who can carve out a comfortable life, not steal, not take advantage of the weak, has a few people who truly love them, add a few original ideas to this thing we call life; that smart?

Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by blueprint on Friday December 04, 2015 @01:46AM (#10675043)
Intelligence is different from wisdom is different from knowledge.

Wisdom is the eyesight (degree of visual acuity) of a consciousness.

Your knowledge is what you've heard and experienced and accepted through your individual consciousness.

The issue is that knowledge can be right or wrong – because people hear what they want to hear, generally speaking, and are not aware of the difference between their thought and the reality. Plus, people understand the same things in different ways, when they do not have sufficient wisdom to see the thing itself.

The problem is that some conspiracy theories end up being completely true. Others do not.

My question to you is, given that 'theories' are commonly defined as things still unproven, by what criteria do you distinguish a wacky conspiracy theory from one that seems plausible?

Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by 746F7475 on Friday December 04, 2015 @04:33AM (#10675411)
In my opinnion the flaw in your question is that 'all' conspiracy theories are wacky or can be made wacky by the believers. At that point all you can do is weight the evidence for and against and come to your own conclusion, but at the end of the day the conspiracy theorists have the burden of proof.
Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by moron4hire on Thursday December 03, 2015 @09:16PM (#10674154)
There is a tendency among a lot of people to make a post-hoc rationalization that--because certain, historical, geniuses were eccentric--being eccentric makes you a genius. There are other, similar, false rationalizations around being "complex" vs just being difficult, being "brave" vs just being reckless, etc.
Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by darkmighty on Friday December 04, 2015 @03:29AM (#10675255)
Also sampling bias, since the wacky or loud geniuses may get more publicity.
Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by boxy310 on Thursday December 03, 2015 @06:36PM (#10673564)
Being smart in a particular subject requires a certain coalescence of talent, training, and timing. Most people do not have the prerequisites to be smart in all subjects, or even a significant amount of them. The economic division of labor also encourages specialization rather than general expertise. This is why one should be wary of experts speaking far afield of their expertise.
Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by cerebrum on Thursday December 03, 2015 @07:26PM (#10673791)
I guess I qualify a bit in that respect. The question I ask you: how do you know they are nuts and not in fact correct?
Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by mattlutze on Friday December 04, 2015 @07:20AM (#10675886)
You learn the nature of a thing by developing and testing hypotheses around it, I would suppose.
Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by ajnin on Thursday December 03, 2015 @07:17PM (#10673754)
Maybe they're actually right and they see connections on a broad scale that other people are too stupid to make. Intelligence is after all often described as the ability to discern the hidden structure behind things. (half kidding ;))
Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by rpgmaker on Friday December 04, 2015 @08:29AM (#10676164)
I don't think "stupid" is the right word to describe Ballmer. Maybe unsophisticated but not stupid.
Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by pound on Thursday December 03, 2015 @06:46PM (#10673602)
That may be a certain relaxation point, way to entertain themselves. No need to seriously analyze something, just having fun going with it. Especially if you don't really care about what other people are thinking about you.
Re:How to be like Steve Ballmer by solipsism on Thursday December 03, 2015 @10:02PM (#10674331)
It's easy to understand if you just abandon the idea that stupid-to-smart is a single 1-dimensional spectrum. There are all kinds of intelligence, and having one doesn't imply having others.