News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Are Adblock companies breaking the law? by Raed667 on Monday November 23, 2015 @12:58PM (#10616008)
Easy, one argument response: The user should be in control of the code executed on his computer.
Re:Are Adblock companies breaking the law? by bad_user on Monday November 23, 2015 @01:20PM (#10616158)
That's an emotional response IMHO. I'm not a lawyer, but I think the outcome of this is predictable.

For applications and games it is illegal to circumvent DRM protections meant to prevent or eliminate unauthorised acts of reproduction, communication, public offer or distribution in the EU. In the USA it's also illegal, although jail-breaking general-purpose computing devices is legal since 2015.

In general usage of software is covered by EULA terms that are not negotiable and enforced by copyright law. If you don't like the EULA, then you can choose to not use the software in question. Of course an EULA cannot override copyright or contract law. Plus many companies claim that software licensing is not a sale, hence the first-sale doctrine does not apply. The EULA for Microsoft Windows famously says that Windows is licensed and not sold. But overall, in order to use a piece of software you have to respect both the EULA it is distributed under and copyright law. Because without that EULA there's nothing giving you the right to use said software, because the copyright law says so.

In other words, while you may be justified in saying that the user should choose what to run on his computer, modifying an app or a web interface to load just what you want and discard anything else is probably copyright infringement. And even if it's not, though I doubt it, then this can be solved with a simple piece of code that blocks browsers with ad-blockers, in which case blocking such pieces of code from running is definitely illegal.

Re:Are Adblock companies breaking the law? by Raed667 on Monday November 23, 2015 @04:46PM (#10617555)
I think that the clear distinction is:

- In the first case you're gaining access to a content you don't have the right to. Thus braking the law.

- In the second case, you're merely discarding some content that doesn't interest you.

I'm afraid that the kind of argument above will lead us to a dystopia like the one pictured in Black Mirror - Fifteen Million Merits[0].

[0]: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2089049/?ref_=ttep_ep2

Re:Are Adblock companies breaking the law? by kllrnohj on Monday November 23, 2015 @01:11PM (#10616094)
The user is under no obligation to use either the website nor the ad block software. As a result, your argument is irrelevant.
Re:Are Adblock companies breaking the law? by Raed667 on Monday November 23, 2015 @04:50PM (#10617585)
And yet websites keep serving users who are running ad-blocking software even when they're under no obligation to serve content unless it is removed.

The websites are accepting this model because any other will just push users away.

Re:Are Adblock companies breaking the law? by blainesch on Monday November 23, 2015 @01:05PM (#10616046)
Couldn't the same argument be used for the blizzard bot? One is more intentionally telling users to break the TOS, but at the end of the day the user is running the code.
Re:Are Adblock companies breaking the law? by pdonis on Monday November 23, 2015 @01:12PM (#10616103)
And the remedy is the same in both cases: if the provider really doesn't want people using clients that do certain things, the provider needs to control access so that only clients that don't do those things can access their server.

In the case of Blizzard, this would mean forcing gamers to run clients that were known by Blizzard to not contain bots; for example, Blizzard could force users to use signed client binaries. Blizzard might actually be able to get away with this because their users are paying customers who really, really want to play their game.

In the case of a website running ads, this would mean forcing viewers to run clients that were known by the website to not contain ad blockers; for example, the website could force viewers to run signed browser binaries. Of course, no site that runs ads will try this, because it would just mean nobody would view their site. Notice that sites whose users actually need to go there to do business, such as banking sites or Amazon, don't complain about ad blockers. It's only sites whose business model depends on ads that do. That should be a "here's your sign" moment to ad-supported sites that their business model is not sustainable. It should not be an excuse to sue ad blockers.

Re:Are Adblock companies breaking the law? by stevesearer on Monday November 23, 2015 @01:47PM (#10616364)
I'm of the mindset that most people actually like advertising when the advertisements are highly relevant and not in-your-face.

My first job was at a movie theater and we lined the wall with movie posters of the movies coming out. People just walked over to them and checked them out to see if there was anything of interest coming out in the next few months.

One of the activities in the city I live in now is a movies in the park which is sponsored by some local company. They show a quick 2 minute ad or something and mention that the company sponsored the activity. I wouldn't ever pay to go watch the movie, and am always glad that the sponsoring company essentially paid for me.

It is unfortunate that most modern advertisements online don't try to take a similar approach and show highly relevant ads or just sponsor something they want to exist.

I run a site which is 100% ad-supported, so I'm obviously biased.

Re:Are Adblock companies breaking the law? by pdonis on Monday November 23, 2015 @05:55PM (#10617952)
> I'm of the mindset that most people actually like advertising when the advertisements are highly relevant and not in-your-face.

I may be an outlier, but I have never gotten any useful information from ads, so I have never had an ad be "highly relevant" for me. Also, to me, any ad in my field of view is "in your face", because it takes mental effort even to filter it out.

> I wouldn't ever pay to go watch the movie

Do you buy any of the products of the company that sponsors the movies?

Re:Are Adblock companies breaking the law? by stevesearer on Monday November 23, 2015 @06:14PM (#10618039)
The site I run displays photos of office interior design and the ads are relevant in that they are photos of products related to office interior design (chairs, desks, lounge furniture...)

One interesting case was a recent ad for a new phone booth product for offices which is generally relevant to my readers, but also specifically relevant because of the current huge desire for private and quiet space in modern open office environments. That ad has performed much, much higher than average.

Regarding the movies thing, no I haven't purchased any products from the sponsoring companies, but I am glad that they paid for me to attend the event in the same way I would be glad if my friend paid for me to attend an event.

Re:Are Adblock companies breaking the law? by DanBlake on Monday November 23, 2015 @01:29PM (#10616228)
You have no idea how cheating in games works. They dont touch the exe, they touch the memory. You can not stop game hacks with any first strike system, Its 100% reaction based, like anti virus software.
Re:Are Adblock companies breaking the law? by pdonis on Tuesday November 24, 2015 @12:40AM (#10619302)
> You have no idea how cheating in games works. They dont touch the exe, they touch the memory.

Well, that would certainly make it harder for Blizzard to stop cheating. But not impossible; they would just need to require clients to have locked down memory. That is probably impractical (for example, it might well mean they would have to sell their own locked down client devices), but it's not impossible.

> You can not stop game hacks with any first strike system

Sure you can. But the system might not be practical.

Re:Are Adblock companies breaking the law? by bloaf on Monday November 23, 2015 @01:37PM (#10616293)
Ad blocking is not a necessarily a browser-based thing. Even if they were to mandate a blocker-free browser, you could block ads with a firewall, by running your own DNS, or through the HOSTS file.
Re:Are Adblock companies breaking the law? by pdonis on Tuesday November 24, 2015 @12:45AM (#10619319)
> you could block ads with a firewall, by running your own DNS, or through the HOSTS file.

Yes, you could, but I doubt that the number of people who have both the knowledge and the motivation to do so, instead of just loading a browser extension, is significant. In any case, my point was that just trying to lock down the browser (let alone trying to lock down firewalls, DNS, etc.) is a nonstarter for companies who want to force people to see their ads; the users' reaction will just be to go to another site.

Re:Are Adblock companies breaking the law? by exo762 on Monday November 23, 2015 @01:08PM (#10616068)
No really. Bot was executed on user's machine, but effects of bot work were reaching well beyond user's machine, destroying economics of game, user experience and company profits.
Re:Are Adblock companies breaking the law? by aggronn on Monday November 23, 2015 @01:10PM (#10616087)
Are you saying that ad blocking is a victimless 'crime' that doesn't have any effects outside of your computer?
Re:Are Adblock companies breaking the law? by hijiri on Monday November 23, 2015 @01:13PM (#10616115)
Yes, the ToS restricting how the user uses the software should not exist in the first place. Keeping control of your computing is the core idea of free software.
Re:Are Adblock companies breaking the law? by nv-vn on Monday November 23, 2015 @01:09PM (#10616075)
I don't think so. The code of the bot is interfering with the actions of a remote server. An ad blocker works locally.
Re:Are Adblock companies breaking the law? by oh_sigh on Monday November 23, 2015 @01:17PM (#10616141)
Ad blocking is interfering with the actions of a remote server, for example by blocking the expected transmission of tracking and analytic data.
Re:Are Adblock companies breaking the law? by nv-vn on Monday November 23, 2015 @09:10PM (#10618733)
Except the bot is causing things to be written to the server. The ad blocker is only blocking requests from happening (and those requests occur on the client side, in JavaScript). It's not blocking the transmission from the server's end at all, it's only stopping an event from happening locally.
Re:Are Adblock companies breaking the law? by kllrnohj on Monday November 23, 2015 @01:12PM (#10616097)
No, it's the other way around. The bot worked locally (simulating input). Ad blocks interfere with the actions of a remote server.