Why it’s so hard to keep up with how the U.S. gov't is spying on its own people

Re:Why it’s so hard to keep up with how the U.S. gov't is sp... by misiti3780 on Monday November 23, 2015 @11:46AM (#10615537)

From what I have witnessed, the average American I come into contact with still doesn't seem to care about the spying. I have recently had conversations in the past week since the Paris attacks with a few people that seemed to really believe Snowden's leaks were a big reason this happened and anyone who has "nothing to hide" should support the dragnet NSA policies.

The sad thing is that the US intelligence community apparently notified the French spooks about the possibility of an impending ISIS attack(s) (which seems ambiguous, after all, an attack could occur anywhere) and a few of the attackers were on fundamentalist watch lists, and yet the attacks still happened. Yet no major media outlet has (at least that I have seen) identified this as an example of a failure of the US/EU ICs. Glenn Greenwald was on CNN yesterday throwing CNN's anchor under the bus for allowing all these major IC talking heads to come on and blame snowden, talk up dragnet, etc. - it was pretty interesting.

Terrorist attacks, which are black swan events, are not preventable. So if I have to deal with them, I would rather deal with them without the dragnet than with it. I also cant think of a single example of the NSA/CIA preventing a major terrorist attack in the US (at lets face it, if they had one, they would have used this as a shining example by now). All of the attacks that were thwarted were just by luck: shoe bomber, underwear bomber, time square bomber, etc.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Why it’s so hard to keep up with how the U.S. gov't is sp... by cryoshon on Monday November 23, 2015 @11:54AM (#10615576)

Authority and propaganda weigh very heavily on people's perspectives; it is an idea of mine that the American 21st century propaganda regime is the strongest in history thus far.

For the people who accept authority as the source of ideas, the anti-surveillance/pro-privacy movement is a non-starter because the dominant military figures say it's harmful, and their word is king because they are the top of the hierarchy. We have now lost about 40% (maybe more, or maybe less? I made up that number based off of how many people vote Republican because conservatives are traditionally associated with being more authority-compliant) of people with this exclusion. That leaves the remaining 60% of the population, for which there is pervasive propaganda. The mainstream media outlets mention the surveillance issue only in passing, and typically give undue weight and time to government accounts, leading to a skewed perspective. People like Greenwald/Snowden get very little airtime, and when they do, they're framed as eccentric outsiders (social undesirables) who have a stupid opinion that the news is obligated to share to appear "balanced".

EDIT: Clarified my Republicans comment a bit. The main thrust is that there is a large population of people who are going to be swayed by authority figures, and these people tend to be politically conservative.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Why it’s so hard to keep up with how the U.S. gov't is sp... by merpnderp on Monday November 23, 2015 @12:06PM (#10615645)

40% based on Republicans? Isn't the current person running this system a Democrat, elected twice while doing exactly this type of surveillance, and defending it as necessary? Don't a significant portion of Republicans lean libertarian? Blaming Republicans is the exact type of us/them sectarian politics that keeps the Obama's of the world in power.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Why it’s so hard to keep up with how the U.S. gov't is sp... by brentm on Monday November 23, 2015 @12:04PM (#10615631)

> I also cant think of a single example of the NSA/CIA preventing a major terrorist attack in the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unsuccessful_terrorist...

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Why it’s so hard to keep up with how the U.S. gov't is sp... by fweespeech on Monday November 23, 2015 @12:30PM (#10615797)

That list is largely FBI and domestic law enforcement, not CIA/NSA.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Why it’s so hard to keep up with how the U.S. gov't is sp... by gjtorikian on Monday November 23, 2015 @11:59AM (#10615606)

I am in no way, shape, or form advocating for more surveillance. But I can recall at least one event recently where a terrorist threat was thwarted: the 2010 Portland, Oregon Christmas car bomb: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Portland_car_bomb_plot

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Why it’s so hard to keep up with how the U.S. gov't is sp... by hexalicious on Monday November 23, 2015 @12:30PM (#10615801)

That plot wasn't discovered from mass surveillance. That was where the FBI makes themselves look like they're solving terror plots by finding mentally unstable socially isolated people and providing all the resources and planning for a 'terror plot' they can then bust.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Why it’s so hard to keep up with how the U.S. gov't is sp... by eric_h on Monday November 23, 2015 @12:35PM (#10615835)

That particular potential terrorist was clearly caught by using targeted surveillance.

It was also the FBI's "bomb" that he tried to detonate.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Why it’s so hard to keep up with how the U.S. gov't is sp... by appleflaxen on Monday November 23, 2015 @02:21PM (#10616611)

you can find a lot of bombs when you put them in people's hands

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Why it’s so hard to keep up with how the U.S. gov't is sp... by thrownaway2424 on Monday November 23, 2015 @12:42PM (#10615886)

If the intelligence agencies have thwarted 90% of the attacks you'd still have the same impression.

FYI Glenn Greenwald is never interesting.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Why it’s so hard to keep up with how the U.S. gov't is sp... by dragonwriter on Monday November 23, 2015 @12:49PM (#10615939)

FYI, "FYI" is not a suitable replacement for "IMO".

[ Parent | on HN ]