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Re:MIT graduate student says income inequality is actually a... by staunch on Thursday November 19, 2015 @07:57PM (#10598860)
He's right about housing being the #1 issue, but it's hardly the only problem created by America's ruling class.

I bet he's entirely blind to the fact that the only reason his paper is getting so much attention is that he's an "MIT graduate".

Attending an elite school like MIT is not even a 1%'er thing, it's a 0.1% thing.

There's probably some poor person, who went to a shitty college, that's even smarter and has a better theory but we'll never hear about it. Think about their career trajectories and the inequality of their outcomes.

Of course the 99.9% contains almost all of the smartest people, but they get almost none of the opportunity. This elitism is absolutely pervasive in American society.

Microsoft: "Harvard dropout inks deal with IBM"

Google: "A new search engine from Stanford."

Facebook: "The exclusive Harvard social network"

Dropbox: "Google Drive killer coming from MIT Startup".

This paper: "MIT graduate student says income inequality is actually about housing"

Something like 95%+ of people that get into elite schools graduate. It's not hard to graduate, it's just hard to get in, and the test for getting in is so gameable and rigged that almost no one pretends it isn't anymore.

As long as the rich can spend fortunes buying elite credentials for their children, we're going to have a ruling class and a worker class.

Re:MIT graduate student says income inequality is actually a... by dopamean on Thursday November 19, 2015 @08:30PM (#10599005)
This comment rings very true for me. I am 30 years old and come from a solidly middle class background - mother was a high school teacher and my father was an airline pilot. I grew up in the Hamptons (Southampton to be exact) and went to a private school. After that I went to U Penn. I ended up dropping out in my sophomore year. I spent the next couple years doing literally nothing productive. I could best be described as very self destructive in those years.

Now, I'm 30. I have a very well paying job. I have quite a bit of money in my bank account. Things are good for me. Much better than some people I know who started off with less than me and worked twice as hard. I cant help but think that my own status in life can mostly be attributed to the access I had to people of power and wealth. Though my family could hardly be considered part of the 1% I did manage to rub shoulders with enough of them that I have received some residual benefit. School was a huge part of that.

It's a weird thing. I sometimes feel guilty about it. Particularly when I meet people who are smarter or harder working than I am.

Re:MIT graduate student says income inequality is actually a... by ssalazar on Thursday November 19, 2015 @08:36PM (#10599028)
> Something like 95%+ of people that get into elite schools graduate. It's not hard to graduate, it's just hard to get in

As someone from a middle class background who went to a top-tier school, you have no idea what you are talking about. Sure, there were/are plenty of humanities majors who had relatively light workloads, but as an engineering major I worked my ass off 8 days/week.

Re:MIT graduate student says income inequality is actually a... by staunch on Thursday November 19, 2015 @08:39PM (#10599041)
Compare your struggle as a well off person attending an elite university to what your poor counterparts were doing at the same time. They were cleaning bathrooms, waiting for buses in the cold, dealing with criminals in bad neighborhoods, and living in apartments with cockroaches.

While they worried about buying food and paying the rent, you "worked your ass off" doing homework in total safety and comfort.

But I was wrong. Poor kids who get into MIT ("Recipients of a Federal Pell Grant") only graduate at a rate of 87%. It's just the wealthy students with such incredibly high graduation rates.

http://web.mit.edu/ir/pop/students/graduation_rates.html

Re:MIT graduate student says income inequality is actually a... by humanrebar on Thursday November 19, 2015 @09:21PM (#10599199)
Poor kids don't make it to top tier schools. It's hard to have good "intangibles" when you have to work while going to high school to pay for your own room and board. Maybe you can get a 4.0 and good SAT scores, but so can a 50,000 other teenagers.
Re:MIT graduate student says income inequality is actually a... by remarkEon on Friday November 20, 2015 @01:21AM (#10599916)
-> It's hard to have good "intangibles" when you have to work while going to high school to pay for your own room and board.

OTOH, that sounds like a pretty darn good "intangible" to me and would certainly warrant further consideration in my book.

Re:MIT graduate student says income inequality is actually a... by humanrebar on Friday November 20, 2015 @07:06AM (#10600792)
I agree, but even if you considered that a good intangible, there are many students who have to work to support themselves and their families. By definition, the things the 1% do to be impressive will always be more unusual and stand out. You pilot your own hot air balloon, are fluent in Farsi, and put in 500 hours helping the underprivileged(a) write resumes? Impressive.

(a) If you are underprivileged, you might have time to volunteer somewhere, but typically supporting your family doesn't count as helping the underprivileged. Changing grandma's bedpans isn't volunteer work, and it's kind of exploitative to make that a major portion of your college application.

Re:MIT graduate student says income inequality is actually a... by ssalazar on Friday November 20, 2015 @01:59PM (#10603085)
> Compare your struggle as a well off person attending an elite university to what your poor counterparts were doing at the same time. They were cleaning bathrooms, waiting for buses in the cold, dealing with criminals in bad neighborhoods, and living in apartments with cockroaches.

No, nobody at my school was doing this[1]. Top-tier schools leverage their massive endowments to provide substantial need-based financial aid. Basically their mission is to ensure, if you get in, that there is absolutely no financial friction to attend. In one high-profile instance Princeton University provided a full scholarship entirely from its own endowment to a formerly homeless undocumented immigrant who went on to become his class's salutatorian[2].

[1] except the cockroaches but that applied to everyone as many of the dorms were quite old.

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan-el_Padilla_Peralta

Re:MIT graduate student says income inequality is actually a... by yequalsx on Thursday November 19, 2015 @09:01PM (#10599128)
Historically places like Yale, MIT, Princeton, etc. had what are called Gentleman Cs. George W. Bush is a famous recipient of this. One can absolutely work hard and excel at MIT, Yale, etc. But also can get (or used to?) Gentleman Cs and still have access to great opportunities after school. Those places have much higher networking effects than Mid Tier State U.

I don't know that this is bad as such but the high end schools aren't exactly very good about educating large numbers of people. That is, very large endowments per student. Large state universities do much better in this area. Also large state universities do a better job of recruiting students outside of the top 0.1% of society.

Re:MIT graduate student says income inequality is actually a... by fallingfrog on Friday November 20, 2015 @10:07AM (#10601483)
I believe you when you say you worked your ass off- but did you have to work a full time job while you were doing it? That's what I was doing. It was mostly my own fault, in my case. I went to school later, as an adult, and had to pay my own way due to misspent time as a youth. But for many people the option of not working is just not an option.
Re:MIT graduate student says income inequality is actually a... by biswaroop on Thursday November 19, 2015 @09:45PM (#10599275)
You seem to be confusing graduate school with undergraduate school. None of the grad students I work with at MIT have rich families. Many come from very non-elite colleges. They're smart and hard-working, much like grad students elsewhere. We get paid below national average salaries to work 60 hour weeks on technically challenging projects.

That said, MIT has an unfair reputation of containing geniuses. Elite schools do have a greater impact, but only the true theories/discoveries stand the test of time.

Re:MIT graduate student says income inequality is actually a... by kiba on Thursday November 19, 2015 @08:18PM (#10598953)
I don't care about the distinction between classes.

I care more about stress, how many months to go before I go broke, if I can get a job or not, or if I can keep a job, or what is my working condition, how many vacation days I get off, and so on.

How lazy are the 1%ers don't concern me.

Re:MIT graduate student says income inequality is actually a... by oldmanjay on Thursday November 19, 2015 @08:14PM (#10598933)
Lots of assertions and anger, not much substance. About the only thing I get from your comment is you have great antipathy for the people on top.
Re:MIT graduate student says income inequality is actually a... by wfo on Thursday November 19, 2015 @09:23PM (#10599209)
It's easy to take nothing from the thoughts of another when you yourself have nothing to give.
Re:MIT graduate student says income inequality is actually a... by galago on Thursday November 19, 2015 @08:21PM (#10598965)
My personal observation is that there is a lot of close, personal interaction at top tier schools. So, while this isn't entirely wrong, its missing a useful observation. Academics working in a curated environment encounter the best ideas and encounter less 'noise' from bad ideas. This isn't a problem that's easy to solve, although technology is slowly chipping away at it. Currently there's not substitute though, for being in the same room with Picketty and other smart people, which probably happened when Picketty visited MIT after the publication of Capital in the 20th Century.
Re:MIT graduate student says income inequality is actually a... by Qwertious on Thursday November 19, 2015 @08:26PM (#10598986)
Generally speaking, ad-hominem is best served as a side-dish. Or not at all.
Re:MIT graduate student says income inequality is actually a... by rtl49 on Thursday November 19, 2015 @08:31PM (#10599008)
It's worth pointing out the silliness of the title ("well, if an MIT grad student claims things are so, who am I to suggest otherwise?"). But it isn't so difficult as you seem to think for a somewhat talented and hard-working student of the middle class to be accepted to an elite school. I think there are many here who can attest to this. The wealthy will always have an advantage, but it isn't as though it's easy to literally buy admission. The sheer number of do-nothing rich kids who never make the cut is evidence of this.
Re:MIT graduate student says income inequality is actually a... by learc83 on Thursday November 19, 2015 @09:13PM (#10599171)
Considering that almost half of Harvard students come from families in the top 4% by income, I'd say the rich have a pretty big advantage.

Harvard is basically free for low income students, yet they make up a very small percentage of total students.

One thing they could do is to increase their outreach to lower income students. When I was in high school, I had no idea that Harvard was affordable for me. Looking back, I probably had the SAT scores and grades to get in, but I never even considered it as a possibility.

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2012/1/26/diversity-lack-f...

Re:MIT graduate student says income inequality is actually a... by rtl49 on Thursday November 19, 2015 @10:01PM (#10599317)
I think I understated the advantage the wealthy have while making the point that the parent comment had overstated it. That said, I'm embarrassed to admit my opinion was mostly informed by anecdotal evidence, and your example with Harvard is certainly better than that. The "fact sheet" in the article is dead, but the conclusion seems reasonable. I'd hoped my comment might serve as some encouragement of the sort outreach might, not as a justification for the current state of economic diversity at elite schools.
Re:MIT graduate student says income inequality is actually a... by TTPrograms on Thursday November 19, 2015 @08:19PM (#10598956)
That's why those schools all require a copy of your parents' paystubs as part of their applications.
Re:MIT graduate student says income inequality is actually a... by staunch on Thursday November 19, 2015 @08:32PM (#10599012)
"And while many of the wealthiest colleges offer need-based scholarships for their poorest students, they enroll a relatively small percentage of low-income students compared to their less wealthy peers. The 10 wealthiest private colleges hold cash and endowments that, combined, total nearly $180 billion. A median 16 percent of their 2012-13 enrollees received Pell Grants, a form of federal aid only available to low-income students, according to an analysis of federal data."

“We are spending the most money as a society educating the wealthiest people.” -- Ronald Ehrenberg, director of the Cornell University Higher Education Research Institute

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/05/21/rich-universi...

http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/28/pf/college/ivy-league-low-in...

https://www.bostonglobe.com/magazine/2015/04/09/what-like-po...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/maggiemcgrath/2013/11/27/the-cha...

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/16/top-1-of-harvard-grads-richer...

Re:MIT graduate student says income inequality is actually a... by TTPrograms on Thursday November 19, 2015 @08:42PM (#10599053)
You're making a tangential point about representation of various socioeconomic classes in admissions. This has more to do with intrinsic correlations in academic performance then biased admissions process.

"A median 16 percent of their 2012-13 enrollees received Pell Grants, a form of federal aid only available to low-income students, according to an analysis of federal data."

What's low-income? If you define low-income as the bottom 20% of income earnings, that would be very close to proportional representation. That's outstanding, given all the confounding factors connecting performance and income.

Re:MIT graduate student says income inequality is actually a... by tuberry on Thursday November 19, 2015 @09:11PM (#10599163)
29% of incoming Harvard freshman (class of 2017) reported family incomes of more than $250,000 / year.

- http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2013/9/4/freshman-survey-a...

less than 2% of families earn more than $250,000 / year.

- http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2012/apr/10/bar...

Re:MIT graduate student says income inequality is actually a... by TTPrograms on Thursday November 19, 2015 @09:42PM (#10599269)
Again, this is a tangential point about how upper socioeconomic classes can better prepare their children for college admissions. The obvious solution is to invest in the public education system, but that's not likely to happen anytime soon (in America anyway, due to it being within the purview of individual states).

The point I'm making is that inequality in colleges is due to better preparation by higher-earning families and not some conspiratorial old-boys club. The hypothetical "some poor person, who went to a shitty college, that's even smarter" the original commenter referred to would have had as fair a shot as any of their caliber to get into the top schools. It's the poor precocious 5 year old that doesn't get read to every night and falls behind because both parents are working late at minimum wage jobs that defines the difficulty of escaping poverty through education. Top schools get to the table wayyy too late to heap the blame on them.

Re:MIT graduate student says income inequality is actually a... by gozo on Friday November 20, 2015 @02:35AM (#10600123)
So how do you explain the discrimination against Asian in elite university admissions?
Re:MIT graduate student says income inequality is actually a... by tuberry on Thursday November 19, 2015 @08:25PM (#10598981)
To be fair, they require proof of income for financial aid, and your ability to pay for college is certainly a big factor. Most colleges (particularly the elite colleges) wouldn't want to enroll students who don't graduate.
Re:MIT graduate student says income inequality is actually a... by TTPrograms on Thursday November 19, 2015 @08:28PM (#10598999)
https://www.edvisors.com/plan-for-college/college-admissions...

Including: Harvard MIT Stanford Princeton Columbia

etc.

Re:MIT graduate student says income inequality is actually a... by aetherson on Thursday November 19, 2015 @08:24PM (#10598980)
It seems deeply unlikely to me that children of the 0.1% make up more than 5% of MIT.
Re:MIT graduate student says income inequality is actually a... by RogtamBar on Thursday November 19, 2015 @09:27PM (#10599221)
>Attending an elite school like MIT is not even a 1%'er thing, it's a 0.1% thing.

No. If you're insanely hard working, passably smart and somehow lucky, you can get in. I knew someone like that - and she reported that she was one of the dumber people there. If 0.1% have their kids there, these are not slacking at all.

> test for getting in is so gameable and rigged that almost no one pretends it isn't anymore.

SAT tests are rigged?

Re:MIT graduate student says income inequality is actually a... by ryanmonroe on Thursday November 19, 2015 @09:22PM (#10599202)
>Something like 95%+ of people that get into elite schools graduate.

>It's not hard to graduate, it's just hard to get in,

These two things are related