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A comment on VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks. Parent comment

Re:VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris ... by 0xFFC on Tuesday November 17, 2015 @08:21AM (#10580815)
Am pretty angry about what is going on in world , so if you felt insulted , I am so sorry , and You should understand I don't want to insult you or any other person specifically,But I want insult Ideologies pretty badly.

As person who LIVES in heart of middle east (Iran) and I have seen shia militant from very close(I know people who works in IRGC),You are completely and pure wrong , do you know what would generate another generation of terrorist ? another invasion. I am atheist and liberal with a little being gay,I am not gay , but sometime things go wrong - and believe me these are pretty dangerous thing to be in Iran and would get me killed, without doubt - but I can realize the only thing will give terrorist another opportunity is invasion of a country in middle east. This is not your fucking war.This was not west fucking war at all. They shouldn't come here in any circumstance.You know what ? because Paris like terrorism act will happen again and again and again. West should understand they were wrong all the time. What the fuck are you doing in middle east ? You know what ? no body more than me would be glad to live in secular community with secular government, but it seems politician in west do not realize , being in middle east is equal to raising radical movement against them. YOU SHOULD UNDERSTAND , MIDDLE EAST SHOULD FIGHT FOR ITSELF, EVEN IF ISIS KILL ALL OF US, this is not your fucking war.I do not remember reading if any alien did help west during the renaissance. Society should grow.

PLEASE , do for humanity a favor , understand militarism is equal to terrorism. I was talking with one idiot yesterday , and he mentioned I do not believe France invade Iraq. Yes your are right idiot . France did not . but west did . These fucking killers in middle east , do not see countries , they see Islam against West.

Do you know who fights in Iran against mullah's ? Christians ? Are you kidding me, mojahidin ? Those fucking traitors, no way.

Academia fights against mullah's, science fights, liberal people fighting against mullah's more effective than any other person in whole revolution history.This regime is almost unbeatable in political sense- because they have money and manpower and oil- but do you know they are seeing liberals in their nightmare. They even don't care about West invasion against Iran(some stupid person like G.W Bush may even consider that option).Because at the end they know the can manage harm West military pretty badly. Worse than maybe Vietnam war.BUT THEY CANNOT FIGHT WITH INTERNET, WITH TOR, WITH STUDENTS who USE TOR.

Give them internet , provide them satellite , facebook/twitter/youtube/porn , Show them fucking beautiful women in Texas(with respect to women, I just want show sexual incentives), show them there is no need to kill so many people to get those woman , you can fuck like heaven in earth without killing people. And BOOOOOM this is the sound of explosion of foundation of religion.

Ruin their stupid culture , and then you are going to see middle is will revive. and turn to into secular place.

and Do you know who is supporting ISIS ? Which countries? I would suspect Saudi Arabia ( the US closest ally after Israel in middle east).Can you fucking believe it ? This is not double standard. This is fucking fraud against humanity.At the end we all know , non of the west's politician's give fucking flying shit about terrorism in middle east. If they did , They weren't this double standard'ed against corrupted (I would say most corrupted regime in whole world) regime in Saudi Arabia.What was last time you checked women condition in Saudi Arabia.And why the hell us have this much relation ship with country which behead people like candy. This is what I mean when I am saying double standard.

p.s. if you felt I insult you , I am so sorry , I was talking broadly than talking with you.I hope respectively, you understand there was something HUGE wrong with west policy in middle east.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris ... by ctdonath on Tuesday November 17, 2015 @09:38AM (#10581269)
The post is interesting for many reasons. One in particular is worth discussing:

I have seen shia militant from very close

Most in the West have absolutely NO IDEA what the difference between Shiite, Sunni, etc sects are. We think they look the same, act the same, adhere to the same general doctrines. Most Westerners are barely aware of a difference, if at all, with no idea which is which. I mention this because it seems there is, indeed, a deep difference between the two causing a great deal of the regional conflict ... and when well-meaning outsiders seek to intervene (yes, got it, not our war, but that's not how we see it) we're likely to take action without regard to the Shiite/Sunni split - which of course doesn't help.

Those of us trying to decide how to respond to the Paris & other attacks are desperately trying to draw a line between the "bad" responsible for such atrocities, vs the "good" we want to protect. We need help drawing that line. Clarifying the difference between Shiite and Sunni would probably help.

And BTW: those who do not make clear which side of the conflict they're on are likely to be assigned a side, much to their dismay.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris ... by omginternets on Tuesday November 17, 2015 @11:26AM (#10582086)
I certainly don't feel insulted, and I can only imagine your immense frustration.

I must, however, disagree with the notion that this isn't our war. When my countrymen get slaughtered in the streets, it is de facto my war. And to be clear, there are elements of Western foreign policy that I condemn as harshly as you, if not more.

Where I do agree with you is with regards to the fact that military action is a short-term stopgap and not a long-term solution. I think you're very lucid in your analysis: this is a cultural war, not of East vs West, but of obscurantism vs enlightenment. I'm well aware -- and indeed very reassured -- to know that most Persians and Arabs are on my side, and I on theirs.

>I would suspect Saudi Arabia ( the US closest ally after Israel in middle east).Can you fucking believe it ?

There are no words to describe how enraged I am by the state of global politics. I wouldn't dare suggest that military action fixes the larger problem, but I'm fairly convinced that killing jihadis is necessary, albeit insufficient.

In any case, I really hope to visit Iran someday (as a civilian, obviously). It's by far the Middle Eastern country that fascinates me the most. :)

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris ... by return0 on Tuesday November 17, 2015 @09:17AM (#10581147)
The middle east is politically undeveloped and unstable so wars would be inevitable, with or without western involvement. It is unfortunate, but "great powers" were involved in the nation building of many many different countries. They seem to fail in middle east - so far. But that doesn't mean that it would all be peaceful of the westerners stopped being involved.

The problem is, as your comment shows, the idea of a nation is far less appealing than the idea of religion in middleeastern countries. You need to first have people willing to fight for their country more than they are for their religion.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris ... by 0xFFC on Tuesday November 17, 2015 @09:31AM (#10581227)
About first part of your comment that is a simple false, that is simple lie western politician's they keep telling you . I can see personally what it will turns when it implemented in real world.Personally ,in my personal life.But about involvement , You should read my comment again carefully, I did say west should involve vigorously , but with what? with changing mindset of people, providing them Internet, free flow of information.It is so funny for me , USA keeps spending unlimited amount of money for fighting Iran , the one of the most important thing they should do is to figure out a way for providing free internet and better proxies and these kind of things(Generally free flow of information), they are not working on that . You may haven't seen what internet do with people life in middle east, I have seen it , personally , with my own eye. It turn fundamental religious idiots to people's who spend life time behind the desk reading/watching in internet.

p.s. about the part about country and religious.That was my whole point. YOU simply should show them your religion is wrong, people can fuck and have sex like haven (maybe better than that) in L.A. Without killing people.

Believe me , does not matter how much you are going to try and push. I will guarantee you , there will not any nation in middle east with these people.maybe a nation will be stabilize , but it will not democracy , it will be Saddam Hussein like leader and guess what , there is another generation of terrorist who will grow in Hussein like dictatorship.

Do you want nation. like you have in Scandinavia (in long term) ? keep working on their mind with free information flow.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris ... by tmalsburg2 on Tuesday November 17, 2015 @02:20PM (#10583349)
The idea that the west set out to bring stability to the middle east is heart-warming but the accumulated evidence seems to suggest the exact opposite. To a neutral observer, the evidence rather suggests that the west is actively trying to destabilize the region. Consistent with that narrative, one of the most stable countries (Iran) makes the US most uncomfortable. However, even if we take a more charitable view of the west's intentions, we'd have to conclude that the west's agenda is based on the fundamentally flawed assumption that the middle east lingers in a pre-modern state that is bound to be eventually replaced by western-style modernity.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris ... by late2part on Tuesday November 17, 2015 @08:54AM (#10580988)
Thank you for an informed and passionate point of view.

I'm proud of the work I and others have done to make Internet ubiquitous to fight ignorance.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris ... by abc_lisper on Tuesday November 17, 2015 @10:15AM (#10581503)
^ This rocks. I always wondered why I don't hear from liberals from Middle East on the forums on these sensitive topics. Ask your friends to come out here and comment. Talking openly like this will do a lot of good

- People here will realize you are normal too

-People here will understand your perspective

Don't bottle it up and 'splode once, cause that confirms their world view.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris ... by happyscrappy on Tuesday November 17, 2015 @08:53AM (#10580979)
More and more of the West are wanting to just pull out and "let them all kill each other", but that seems a little cruel doesn't it? Damned if you do damned if you don't.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris ... by 0xFFC on Tuesday November 17, 2015 @09:03AM (#10581050)
Personally I think cruelty or compassion don't have place in this kind of calculation. We are calculation about faith of maybe million's of million's people.What is best for all of us ? What is best for humanity ? fucking around in middle east and randomly bombing some dude's which may or may not thinking about attacking west or end this non sense and let middle east to fight for himself.
[ Parent | on HN ]
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Re:VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris ... by tmalsburg2 on Tuesday November 17, 2015 @12:29PM (#10582621)
Of all the things that he said you chose to respond to that? I think you don't realize how serious things are for some people.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris ... by utku_karatas2 on Tuesday November 17, 2015 @05:22PM (#10584432)
We're discussing international politics on HN. Gotta take it easy. Beside that, in the face of the morbid reality and impending doom in Middle-east one has the need to laugh some times.
[ Parent | on HN ]