The term developer is so broad, so overloaded, and will only keep getting more overloaded as the tech industry continues to expand.

If I meet someone at a party and they say they're a developer, even as a developer myself I have no idea what that really means, and I have to ask more questions and probably drill down for at least a couple more minutes before I have the slightest clue what their actual specialty and interests are, let alone what they do or are capable of doing day to day.

In such a specialised world, there's not really much sense in reserving any particular word for any particular category of job or skill, because to do so would be so high level as to be almost useless anyway. High level titles in this world are completely, utterly meaningless because people can and do use them liberally. We're in a place now where it's necessary to have a fairly involved discussion with someone to figure out what their real job and skillset actually are, whereas maybe 50 or more years ago, that perhaps wasn't so much the case. That's a very good thing and we should embrace it and not worry about broad definitions being 'misused'.

Put it this way, if I was being interviewed by somebody who wanted a custom web app building, and they genuinely confused someone advertising themselves as a WordPress developer with a full stack web developer, to an extent that it caused me not to be hired, I think that would ultimately be a positive thing as I'd almost certainly not want to work on that project anyway! There is no danger of the market for custom software becoming confused with the market for WordPress sites, and if there is an overlap, you don't, as a 'real developer' (air quotes very much emphasised) really want to be there anyway, right?

Words have meaning. For people who can discern the differences between these titles - probably most visitors to HN - these distinctions seem silly and almost trivial at times because we think "of course those are different!"

But 99.9%+ of the world is not like us.

They don't know the difference between "web developer" and "WordPress developer" or which framework to use. They don't even know there are lots of frameworks, let alone which use which languages.

This is why when you visit family for the holidays, you constantly hear "oh, you work with computers.. can you see what's wrong with my computer?"

In my opinion, the correct answer to that is, "Yes, for a fee.", and has nothing to do with the overloading of terms, but everything to do with the undervaluation of tech-related labor. I am perfectly capable of fixing your computer, I just don't want to waste my leisure time doing it for free.

Next time you get this, tell the family (especially if they are distant family) – "If your relative was a doctor, would you ask them to give you a quick once-over physical every time they came over? Or if your accountant brother-in-law comes along, do you ask them to glance over your tax forms for free? No? Then stop asking me to look at your computer."

It's also to do with the large gap between consumer-level knowledge and professional knowledge, and the fact that amateurs enthusiastically fill that gap for free, and often competently. Often, "fix my computer" equates to "uninstall this bloatware" and that's non-trivial but simple enough for Gary the precocious 8 year old grandchild to do for kicks.

That there's a world of difference between Gary and real tech-related labour is entirely opaque to someone who thinks Gary knows everything about computers.

I always feel like the authors of posts like these suffer from a terrible lack of confidence.

It is unfortunate but titles do matter, and they matter also when you apply to future jobs to pass the HR filter.

No they don't. Companies align positions to industry standard rates, not job titles. One place will call you programmer level 3, some other place will call you Senior developer but if they have the same responsibility, they will be aligned in pay.

Where I am doesn't use the title 'Developer' or 'Programmer. Do you think that means they have no idea how to gauge people coming in or other areas of the industry that do use those titles?

Hopefully corporate attitudes toward work categories changes in the future. It only leads to inefficiency and finding a reason for superiority.

I'd understand the distinction, as would most of my colleagues.

    Tim Berners-Lee
    Web Developer

Tim Berners-Lee, Web Developer

David Shing, AOL Digital Prophet

https://mobile.twitter.com/ElSatanico/status/514340801468706...

Based on your need as an interviewer/organization, you may choose to accept someone who shows passion but less refined skill with a learning opportunity, or you may require someone at a high skill level ready to go on day one.

To me, this is the interviewer's responsibility, to know their requirement and make it clear to candidates.

1) You receive hundreds of spam applications even if you mention explicitly code-related stuff - like GitHub/Bitbucket repo, years of programming experience, know-how in TDD, we sometimes experiment with continuous integration experience or others. The wave comes as long as you mention WordPress.

2) Other than the spam applications and standard "bots", many people simply don't know what's included in "developer" or what real "developers" do. Even if they do want to learn and get better, they don't know the limits and can't aim higher than they are.

All I can say is, personally, my own professional ethics require me to try to know my own limits and abilities and present those honestly. So, for example, if a client came to me with a technical need, and I felt that I wanted to fulfill it, but it was reasonably out of my wheelhouse, I would either turn down or direct that client to the best alternative I could think of, if I could not provide it.

I suppose, ethics training is a part of professional development in more rigid occupations, maybe if ours was formalized more, this would be more prevalent.

It's like calling yourself a doctor after watching Grey's Anatomy and House, while the majority of the people study for 10 years and do real work.

And 'interview' is not a great answer because the signal to noise ratio is so low.