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Re:How the war on drugs creates violence by sixQuarks on Wednesday October 21, 2015 @10:02AM (#10425442)
Besides all of the stated reasons to legalize/decriminalize, I think just as important is personal liberty.

I should be free to experiment with my own consciousness (so long as it does not impede on the rights of others) - how much more personal can you get? For the government to impede on this is unconscionable (pun intended).

Re:How the war on drugs creates violence by lighthawk on Wednesday October 21, 2015 @10:16AM (#10425529)
> so long as it does not impede on the rights of others

This is really the crux of the problem. How do you suggest that you legalize all drugs and then keep people on those drugs from harming others? Public safety has a hard enough time without having to deal with some unknown number of additional people that would try drugs are harm themselves or others if those drugs were legal.

Re:How the war on drugs creates violence by werber on Wednesday October 21, 2015 @10:29AM (#10425619)
>How do you suggest that you legalize all drugs and then keep people on those drugs from harming others?

The bulk of the societal harm that comes from drug use is in the steps people take to get drugs, not from the actual drug use. Having adverse reactions to drugs can be mitigated by actually knowing what you're taking. And removing the stigma and taking on addiction as a public health issue and not a criminal one is a huge boost to community safety.

Re:How the war on drugs creates violence by clavalle on Wednesday October 21, 2015 @11:06AM (#10425918)
> How do you suggest that you legalize all drugs and then keep people on those drugs from harming others?

It depends on what you mean by that.

If you mean they harm others by going on a drug fueled rampage, there isn't much we can do but react when it happens like we do for, say, a passion fueled rampage or a drunken rampage.

If you mean people getting desperate because of a crippling addition so that they try to harm others in order to get access to their drug then I'd recommend spending a fraction of what we do going after and incarcerating these people and get them medical help with their addiction and the basic necessities of survival. And if they continue breaking the laws against other crimes, than prosecute them for those crimes.

Re:How the war on drugs creates violence by dragonwriter on Wednesday October 21, 2015 @12:17PM (#10426463)
> How do you suggest that you legalize all drugs and then keep people on those drugs from harming others?

Illegalizing drugs doesn't keep people on those drugs from harming others; in general, government policy can't absolutely prevent any class of unconsented harms, what it can provide accountability and compensatory mechanism and do things to mitigate (or increase!) the quantity of such harms. And I think the evidence is pretty clear that prohibition, as it has been attempted with alcohol and many other drugs, does quite a bit to increase harms inflicted on others related to the use of and market for the prohibited drugs. A better policy is needed, but its not reasonable to expect that that policy will "keep people on those drugs from harming others".

Re:How the war on drugs creates violence by sixQuarks on Wednesday October 21, 2015 @10:21AM (#10425571)
No, the crux of the problem is your line of thinking. The government cannot and should not replace personal responsibility.

Your argument would mean that no one could drive a car or drink alcohol. Why are drugs different?

Re:How the war on drugs creates violence by jamespo on Wednesday October 21, 2015 @11:03AM (#10425895)
drugs aren't different to alcohol, but I'm sure you can appreciate they are different to cars
Re:How the war on drugs creates violence by Lawtonfogle on Wednesday October 21, 2015 @12:12PM (#10426417)
Temporarily and in places without great public transport. Once automated cars become common place, the argument will hold for choosing to manually drive.

That being said, I've seen a lot of people who think it will eventually become illegal to manually drive, at least on crowded public roads within large cities.

Re:How the war on drugs creates violence by tremon on Wednesday October 21, 2015 @11:07AM (#10425926)
That's not a crux, that's compounding the issue with a completely orthogonal problem. Politics 101.

How do you legalize alcohol and then keep people on alcohol from harming others? How do you legalize guns and then keep people with guns from harming others?

Re:How the war on drugs creates violence by JoeAltmaier on Wednesday October 21, 2015 @10:06AM (#10425469)
This is not happening in a vacuum. There's already problems with experimentation causing considerable public expense, exposure to danger and needless suffering. Anybody can give you an anecdote - I will resist posting mine since they are a dime a dozen.
Re:How the war on drugs creates violence by pstuart on Wednesday October 21, 2015 @10:48AM (#10425783)
The war on drugs has never been about public safety - it's been about control on minorities. This is well documented.

Do drugs have risks? Of course. But as pointed out elsewhere, so does everything else. It's also very clear that any ostensible benefit from prohibition is easily outweighed by the crime and suffering caused by it.

Re:How the war on drugs creates violence by alsetmusic on Wednesday October 21, 2015 @10:16AM (#10425531)
> Anybody can give you an anecdote - I will resist posting mine since they are a dime a dozen.

Links to reputable studies backing this up would be welcome.

Re:How the war on drugs creates violence by sixQuarks on Wednesday October 21, 2015 @10:18AM (#10425539)
You can say that about anything. Should the government stop people from eating junk food? from participating in dangerous sports activities? Why are drugs different?
Re:How the war on drugs creates violence by JoeAltmaier on Wednesday October 21, 2015 @10:40AM (#10425715)
Because, car accidents, child neglect, spouse abuse, healthcare, time lost to work...

Some of those other things are regulated as well. E.g. You can't rappel in many state parks, because idiots kept getting hurt and costing the state $$$ in rescue attempts to remote locations.

Its not all cruel government heedlessly restricting rights. That's an immature viewpoint. Count the cost and see that nothing is free.

Re:How the war on drugs creates violence by pstuart on Wednesday October 21, 2015 @11:28AM (#10426096)
Count the cost of prohibition and do the math. It's cheaper to not spend billions of dollars on prisons and courts then to treat drug abuse like the health issue that it is.

Perhaps the police need to come and kick down your door and throw you in prison to keep you from drinking any more alcohol. You know, for your own good and to protect society.

Re:How the war on drugs creates violence by JoeAltmaier on Wednesday October 21, 2015 @03:39PM (#10428053)
They'd have the wrong house :) I don't drink.
Re:How the war on drugs creates violence by pstuart on Wednesday October 21, 2015 @05:12PM (#10428742)
Well that would be too bad, because it's happening today over drugs. Mistakes happen, and if it's to protect citizens from hurting themselves then it's all for good, right?

Meanwhile people are dying all over the world due to the Drug War but you can feel smug and secure knowing that you are above it all.

Re:How the war on drugs creates violence by sixQuarks on Wednesday October 21, 2015 @10:49AM (#10425793)
So that means you ARE for prohibition of alcohol. Read your last sentence: count the cost and see that nothing is free.

Do you think prohibition of alcohol had no costs? Same thing with drugs - which the article pointed out. The cost of keeping it illegal far outweighs the potential costs resulting from irresponsible users (which we still pay for even when it is illegal)

Re:How the war on drugs creates violence by JoeAltmaier on Wednesday October 21, 2015 @03:40PM (#10428059)
Alcohol is regulated in almost every state in the US. Because its dangerous.
Re:How the war on drugs creates violence by lm______ on Wednesday October 21, 2015 @11:24AM (#10426066)
Show me any evidence that taking a drug causes a person to beat their spouse or neglect their child.

And, for anyone who would drive intoxicated or cripple their health via drug abuse, that is already easy to do -- drugs aren't hard to find if you're looking. Prohibition hasn't and will not stop any of the negative consequences of drug use.

Re:How the war on drugs creates violence by bredren on Wednesday October 21, 2015 @10:44AM (#10425751)
This sub-thread seems to be begging for an anecdote.

https://www.reddit.com/r/oakland/comments/3pf0xk/machete_wie...