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Re:San Francisco May Let Bicyclists Yield at Stop Signs by thesis on Tuesday October 20, 2015 @10:40PM (#10423343)
Cyclists here drive me nutty. Granted most places don't have bike lanes but IMO you shouldn't be on a road where the speed limit is 45 and you're blocking a line of cars.

The other day everyone was patiently waiting to get around this guy going 15mph on his bicycle, and once we did, at the next stop sign he just cruised to the stop sign in the 2 foot space between the cars and the curb and blocked slowed down even more cars.

I know my rant is a little off topic, but my point is that if you want to share the road you should be held to the same standards. Bicycles yielding at stop signs isn't right.

Re:San Francisco May Let Bicyclists Yield at Stop Signs by lutorm on Tuesday October 20, 2015 @10:44PM (#10423360)
if you want to share the road you should be held to the same standards

The law treats bicyclists and motor vehicles differently in many ways already. For example:

* Bicyclists are required to ride "as far to the right as practicable". No such requirement exists for automobiles.

* Bicyclists are prohibited from certain roads, like freeways, unlike automobiles.

Of course, in these cases it is the motor vehicles that are allowed to do things bicyclists aren't allowed to. I suppose for consistency you are arguing that these these rules shouldn't exist either?

Re:San Francisco May Let Bicyclists Yield at Stop Signs by Jtsummers on Tuesday October 20, 2015 @11:01PM (#10423421)
There are motor vehicles that are barred from freeways.

From: http://vespamotorsport.com/?p=654

In California, any scooter with 150cc of displacement or more is legally classified as a “motorcycle” and all motorcycles are freeway legal (see California vehicle code section 400). Any scooter with less than 150cc of displacement is not freeway legal, therefore, even though you still need a motorcycle license to ride a scooter in this class.

Re:San Francisco May Let Bicyclists Yield at Stop Signs by eridius on Wednesday October 21, 2015 @12:20AM (#10423695)
Similarly, Scoots (scootnetworks.com, those electric mopeds you see going around SF) are classified as, well, electric mopeds, and therefore are not freeway-legal (but they don't require a motorcycle license).
Re:San Francisco May Let Bicyclists Yield at Stop Signs by tabio on Wednesday October 21, 2015 @12:18AM (#10423690)
> "as far to the right as practicable". No such requirement exists for automobiles.

Incorrect. Cars are required to drive at the speed of traffic or get off the road. Example: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.425

Bikes have the extra privilege of using the road at slow speed.

Re:San Francisco May Let Bicyclists Yield at Stop Signs by wl on Wednesday October 21, 2015 @12:43AM (#10423764)
That may be incorrect in Washington, but it is correct in California. See CVC 21202.

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/vctop/vc/d11/c...

Re:San Francisco May Let Bicyclists Yield at Stop Signs by Shivetya on Tuesday October 20, 2015 @10:49PM (#10423380)
there still needs to be laws keeping them off roads over 35 or such; I ride a bike. Unless there is a dedicate bike lane being on a road with speeds like that is just asking for trouble even if it is long and straight.

also, tag them like cars. no reason they should not have tag fees if they want to use the road

Re:San Francisco May Let Bicyclists Yield at Stop Signs by witten on Tuesday October 20, 2015 @10:51PM (#10423393)
Bicycle registration has been tried, and it doesn't work from a practical or fiscal perspective: http://www.seattle.gov/cityarchives/exhibits-and-education/s...
Re:San Francisco May Let Bicyclists Yield at Stop Signs by thrownaway2424 on Tuesday October 20, 2015 @11:29PM (#10423526)
Also, roads are primarily funded by general revenues such as sales and payroll taxes. The idea that your registration fees buy you access to the road is completely absurd. Registration fees in California cover a tiny fraction of road costs, and even registration fees together with fuel taxes are not even a majority of the money spent on roads.
Re:San Francisco May Let Bicyclists Yield at Stop Signs by exogen on Tuesday October 20, 2015 @11:31PM (#10423533)
This would make it impossible to do any bike touring at all. The longest trip I did was 2,000 miles and I can tell you: you need to go on highways, period.

Not the interstate, which is not allowed in many places (but is in some!) but highways, which are a different thing.

Re:San Francisco May Let Bicyclists Yield at Stop Signs by exogen on Tuesday October 20, 2015 @11:39PM (#10423564)
Also, it's simply just not the direction we should be going in (especially in the US, which is already overrun with cars and sprawl). We need to make the roads more bike friendly, and that doesn't mean adding bike lanes everywhere. How about lowering the speed limits?

People just need to get over the goddamn fact that sometimes another traveler is in your way, and that doesn't mean they're doing anything wrong. The person in front of you turns left and needs to wait for other cars. The person in front of you turns right and needs to wait for pedestrians in the crosswalk. The person in front of you uses a slower vehicle.

Re:San Francisco May Let Bicyclists Yield at Stop Signs by toothbrush on Wednesday October 21, 2015 @09:27AM (#10425228)
Even assuming completely benevolent car drivers (which seems a stretch), i believe that separated bike and car lanes are the only way it should be done. It is unrealistic to expect such different modes of transport (i.e., very fast 2-ton metal boxes vs. completely vulnerable meatbags on frames going 20km/h) to interact well together. If anything gies wrong (again, assume benevolent drivers: the thing going wrong might be oil on the road, a tyre blowout, sleeping driver, etc.) then the cyclist is going to come off second best, every time. This is the main point to keep in mind. Cyclists are vulnerable, and should be kept away from motorised traffic.

(incidentally, i believe the same in the pedestrians vs. cyclists argument: they too should be separated. But i didn't want to get too off-topic)

EDIT: grammar

EDIT 2: Another point: it's not as simple as you are saying, where people should just be more patient if they're in a car behind a bicycle. That may be true, but when a cyclist falls, for example, and a car "rear ends" them, they are going to be dead with a non-zero probability. The other way around (i.e. a car stalls and a cyclist rear ends them -- this has happened to me) then it's again the cyclist who ends up somewhere between just embarrassed and in the hospital.

Re:San Francisco May Let Bicyclists Yield at Stop Signs by thrownaway2424 on Tuesday October 20, 2015 @11:27PM (#10423513)
Where is there a road in San Francisco with a speed limit over 35MPH, but without a separate bike lane? I'm sure there is one but I can't think of it. It's definitely an edge case which should not affect how one thinks about the Idaho Stop.
Re:San Francisco May Let Bicyclists Yield at Stop Signs by lutorm on Tuesday October 20, 2015 @10:54PM (#10423403)
You never ride on highways? How do you get anywhere?
Re:San Francisco May Let Bicyclists Yield at Stop Signs by loco5niner on Wednesday October 21, 2015 @12:11PM (#10426415)
And 18-wheelers are treated differently than a pickup truck.
Re:San Francisco May Let Bicyclists Yield at Stop Signs by pbsurf on Tuesday October 20, 2015 @11:22PM (#10423488)
at the next stop sign he just cruised to the stop sign in the 2 foot space between the cars and the curb and blocked slowed down even more cars

If the cyclist passed you and even more cars already at the stop sign, that implies that if, instead of passing him, you simply followed him as you would have any other vehicle, you would have ended up in the same place in the queue of motor vehicles at the stop sign. Thus you saved zero time by passing the cyclist.

In city traffic, the average speed of a cyclist can easily be greater than the average speed of motor vehicle, yet many motorists, perhaps not understanding the difference between maximum speed and average speed, insist on rushing past cyclists at the first opportunity, safe or not, just to stop and wait at the next intersection.

Re:San Francisco May Let Bicyclists Yield at Stop Signs by eridius on Wednesday October 21, 2015 @12:16AM (#10423684)
I'm not the OP, but it sounds like the cyclist came up the edge of the lane, between the car and the curb, to get in front again. A car can't follow a bike into a 2-foot-wide gap.
Re:San Francisco May Let Bicyclists Yield at Stop Signs by jschwartzi on Wednesday October 21, 2015 @04:36AM (#10424291)
The point is that it did no good to pass the cyclist if they arrived at the intersection after you and then had enough time before the light changed to gingerly pedal to be in front of you. Even if your top speeds were wildly different, the fact that you both still ended up in the same place at the same time but further down the road, implies that there was no need to pass.

To belabor the point, you would be said to have the same mean velocity, but different peak velocities.

Re:San Francisco May Let Bicyclists Yield at Stop Signs by eridius on Wednesday October 21, 2015 @02:26PM (#10427448)
I'm guessing if they didn't have to wait patently to get past a slow bike, they would have gotten through the intersection long before the bike got there. The only reason the bike was able to get back in front was because it delayed them earlier.
Re:San Francisco May Let Bicyclists Yield at Stop Signs by anon4 on Wednesday October 21, 2015 @04:31AM (#10424274)
No, no it can't. But as far as I'm aware, the bike is allowed to ride in the 2-foot-wide gap. And still, the bike isn't stopping you from going forward. In the case when there really isn't enough space to pass the bike - the road is just too thin, the guy on the bike is a dumb asshole and shouldn't ride on that road.
Re:San Francisco May Let Bicyclists Yield at Stop Signs by Eric_WVGG on Tuesday October 20, 2015 @11:04PM (#10423436)
Not only is your rant off-topic, so is your conclusion. You just rattled off a whole list of irritants that have nothing to do with bicycles yielding at stops.
Re:San Francisco May Let Bicyclists Yield at Stop Signs by parennoob on Tuesday October 20, 2015 @11:03PM (#10423430)
> Granted most places don't have bike lanes but IMO you shouldn't be on a road where the speed limit is 45 and you're blocking a line of cars.

Then appeal for that to be made the law. Otherwise what are you doing deciding who should and shouldn't be on the road? Usually 45 mph roads are 2-lane, there is a perfectly serviceable extra lane for all the car drivers in a hurry.

> The other day everyone was patiently waiting to get around this guy going 15mph on his bicycle, and once we did, at the next stop sign he just cruised to the stop sign in the 2 foot space between the cars and the curb and blocked slowed down even more cars.

You were probably driving too close to him (with your rant, I wouldn't be surprised) and pushed him into that space.

> If you want to share the road you should be held to the same standards. Bicycles yielding at stop signs isn't right.

I agree, on a road that is open to both motorists and cyclists, no one should be forced to ride in the narrow space between the rightmost lane and the curb. Cyclists should be given the use of a specific lane, just like all other vehicles.

Re:San Francisco May Let Bicyclists Yield at Stop Signs by jacobolus on Tuesday October 20, 2015 @10:43PM (#10423353)
If you’re talking about San Francisco, which road exactly is it that has a 45 mph speed limit, and cyclists?

Most city streets have a speed limit of 25 mph, though drivers often go dramatically faster. (On my semi-arterial residential street, the speed limit is officially 25 mph, but between midnight an 6 AM, especially on the weekend, Uber cars and taxis tend to go 50–60+.)

Re:San Francisco May Let Bicyclists Yield at Stop Signs by zten on Wednesday October 21, 2015 @12:13AM (#10423676)
They're definitely not thinking of city driving. Suburbs, maybe. They might be thinking of roads like Highway 1 in Pacifica and north of Stinson Beach. Stretches will have a 50mph speed limit, a narrow shoulder, and a grade that will drop many cyclists to 15mph or lower.
Re:San Francisco May Let Bicyclists Yield at Stop Signs by TulliusCicero on Tuesday October 20, 2015 @10:50PM (#10423383)
Cyclists shouldn't have to share the road, because they should have separate infrastructure. Bikes and cars in the same space is nearly as dumb as cars and pedestrians in the same space.
Re:San Francisco May Let Bicyclists Yield at Stop Signs by brobinson on Wednesday October 21, 2015 @12:29AM (#10423725)
>everyone was patiently waiting to get around this guy

Reminds me of the beginning of this video in California: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u64SFHVYyyg

Re:San Francisco May Let Bicyclists Yield at Stop Signs by anon4 on Wednesday October 21, 2015 @04:34AM (#10424284)
Yeah nah, I bike a lot and that guy is a dumb asshole. Why wasn't the guy in the white car honking at him?
Re:San Francisco May Let Bicyclists Yield at Stop Signs by witten on Tuesday October 20, 2015 @10:49PM (#10423381)
How late did you arrive at your destination? How much earlier would you have arrived had the bicyclist been driving a car instead?
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Re:San Francisco May Let Bicyclists Yield at Stop Signs by gridspy on Tuesday October 20, 2015 @10:45PM (#10423365)
People who emerge onto the footpath are often not prepared to avoid a cyclist cruising along at >4x the speed of a normal pedestrian.