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Re:The UK is replacing roundabouts with traffic lights; US i... by kazinator on Monday October 19, 2015 @06:02PM (#10416115)
> 4-way Stop - a ridiculous type of intersection that ought not to exist.

Ought not to exist in places like Europe, perhaps.

The four-way stop has the virtue that it is easy for Americans and Canadians to understand.

1. Everyone arriving at the four-way pretends to stop by slowing down to around 20 mph.

2. Regardless of who arrived first, if two or more vehicles take conflicting paths, the biggest asshole goes first. (The algorithm for determining this party takes into account factors such as vehicle size, general socio-economic background, minimum velocity achieved during four-way stop approach, and their apparent perception of where the white stop line is.)

3. When two vehicles take nonconflicting paths (e.g. two directly facing vehicles both go right) they need not acknowledge each others' existence.

4. Only left turns must be indicated. If someone fails to indicate while approaching, they are assumed to be going straight or turning right. Should that be incorrect, the situation is resolved by a fair division of rights: right of way is given to the non-indicating left turner($), whereas the inconvenienced/threatened party is given the right to several prolonged honks of the horn.

5. Where visibility over the other converging roads is not obstructed by building, bush or otherwise, the four-way stop may be completely ignored when not approached by another vehicle with an estimated arrival time that is within a second, either way, of one's own arrival time. (Pedestrians and cyclists may optionally be counted as vehicles at the driver's discretion.)

Who needs roundabouts?

----

$. The governing principle here is consistency -- with rule (2).

Re:The UK is replacing roundabouts with traffic lights; US i... by mikestew on Monday October 19, 2015 @06:10PM (#10416152)
The four-way stop has the virtue that it is easy for Americans and Canadians to understand.

I realize you're being facetious, but that statement is so untrue for the Pacific Northwest of the U. S. that _Portlandia_ even devoted part of an episode to it.

And, surprise, they have trouble with roundabouts, too. Though unlike 4-way stops, it looks like mossbacks are starting to grok roundabouts.

Re:The UK is replacing roundabouts with traffic lights; US i... by herbig on Monday October 19, 2015 @06:07PM (#10416144)
Where exactly do you live? I've driven all over the east coast and have never, ever seen any of this to be remotely true.
Re:The UK is replacing roundabouts with traffic lights; US i... by Nadya on Monday October 19, 2015 @06:19PM (#10416188)
My guess is west coast.

(1) is even lovely titled "California Pit Stop". Because people from California don't know to stop on the white line (or have a terrible perception of where the front of their vehicle is) many people stop in the pedestrian crossing. They proceed to roll through the 4-way stop so long as they don't see anyone. Although 20mph is cutting it, perhaps 10-15? Either way they never come to a full and complete stop.

(2) is because seemingly nobody knows 4-way stops are FIFO and believe it's "Straights first then turns". If paths are non-conflicting, both people will go at the same time.

(4) is only partially true. If you're in a rush, left-signalling is not necessary; it's user discretion. Also all straight/right turn lanes are assumed to be straight, since nobody signals right turns. This is a reminder that it is your fault for not turning right due to potential oncoming traffic and the car behind you will occasionally honk in irritation that you didn't pull out in front of traffic that was potentially continuing straight.

Driving in the L.A area is hell.

Re:The UK is replacing roundabouts with traffic lights; US i... by kazinator on Monday October 19, 2015 @06:24PM (#10416215)
Note that going at the same time for nonconflicting paths is logical: at least if everyone reliably indicates lefts! Intersection controls exist for resolving the conflict over a resource: a piece of road needed by multiple vehicles which they can't all occupy at the same time. If there is no conflict, the control serves no purpose to that case, other than "traffic calming".
Re:The UK is replacing roundabouts with traffic lights; US i... by Nadya on Monday October 19, 2015 @06:30PM (#10416250)
Even when the user signals - there is no guarantee they will be actually be turning. Some users think it is in good form to signal an upcoming lane merge while stopped at an intersection.

I guess the point we're both trying to get across is that people on the west coast, as a whole, don't seem to understand how to drive. :) It was motivation enough for me to buy a dashcam.

Re:The UK is replacing roundabouts with traffic lights; US i... by timmyelliot on Monday October 19, 2015 @08:13PM (#10416677)
I live in Los Angeles, particularly Beverly Hills / Century City, and am surprised when I see people acting civil at 4-way stops.
Re:The UK is replacing roundabouts with traffic lights; US i... by kazinator on Monday October 19, 2015 @06:21PM (#10416201)
West coast Canada. (See mikestew's sibling comment to yours).