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Re:Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Fre... by peeters on Saturday October 17, 2015 @10:29AM (#10404462)
> While switching to a new OS, especially Windows 10 is definitely a good move

Who is claiming this? Maybe for hardware known to have good Windows 10 support it's a good move. For me, I've had more blue screens in the last month than I had in the 10 years before that. Lots of poor driver support (fingerprint reader doesn't work, touchpad reverts settings after every boot, crashes).

The user experience is an upgrade from my perspective, but the upgrade has been anything but painless.

Re:Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Fre... by scrollaway on Saturday October 17, 2015 @11:10AM (#10404584)
When I installed windows 10 last week I had the .. pleasure... to look at the various privacy options.

During the installation, Windows uses weasel words to present the user with privacy settings hiding the option to change them at all. Take a look:

https://jonathan.porta.codes/images/posts/2015/07/window-10-...

In "express settings":

* Send contact, calendar and input data to Microsoft

* Send typing and inking data to Microsoft

* Let apps use your Advertising ID for "experiences across apps" (I'm not making this shit up)

* Send microsoft and "trusted partners" location data

* Turn on SmartScreen (Admittedly I don't know exactly how it works but seeing as it's in those options I can take a horrifying guess on the implications)

* Send your browsing data to Microsoft to "make your overall experience better" (WTF wording)

* Autoconnect to shared networks

* Autoconnect to suggested open hotspots

Damn. And then, one that's not in there which you have to find for yourself, if you even know about it: P2P share windows updates with any windows computer on the internet.

Ho-ly-crap. I like W10 as an OS so far but this stuff is just insane.

BTW, the only reason I went with W10 was that W7 doesn't support GPT.

Sources:

http://www.howtogeek.com/224352/what%E2%80%99s-the-differenc...

http://www.howtogeek.com/224981/how-to-stop-windows-10-from-...

Edit: Yikes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_SmartScreen#SmartScr...

Re:Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Fre... by newman314 on Saturday October 17, 2015 @01:33PM (#10405245)
I posted this in a different thread yesterday but am reposting here for the folks that do move to Win10.

--

PSA: For people with Windows 10 installed, I've found the following tool quite useful in shutting down the large amount of information collected.

http://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10

Re:Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Fre... by scrollaway on Saturday October 17, 2015 @06:08PM (#10406345)
Thank you. That looks great.
Re:Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Fre... by brazzledazzle on Saturday October 17, 2015 @12:23PM (#10404898)
>P2P share windows updates with any windows computer on the internet

I'm not sure that concerns me since they're doing signature verification on the data before doing anything with it.

Re:Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Fre... by ebbv on Saturday October 17, 2015 @12:26PM (#10404914)
I think you're missing the point of concern here. That would be one, but let's just hope that Microsoft is smart enough to validate the data gotten from P2P updates.

That still brings up the issue that Microsoft is leveraging my broadband connection, my power and my computer(s) that I pay for to issue updates to their customers without even asking. That's not ok.

Re:Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Fre... by togusa on Saturday October 17, 2015 @12:55PM (#10405051)
Definitely. My mother has a 3gb cap on her broadband every month and this is going to basically break it.

Fuck them for even daring to do this. It's authoritarian arrogance, nothing more.

Re:Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Fre... by brazzledazzle on Saturday October 17, 2015 @01:48PM (#10405314)
That's a great point.
Re:Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Fre... by ladzoppelin on Saturday October 17, 2015 @11:54AM (#10404777)
Dell,Lenovo and HP have completely dropped the ball with drivers for Windows 10. Its not horrible but at the same time not perfect. I will be ordering as many Surface book's as I can get once they are available. I think an office with 50% Surface Books and 50% Macbook Pros is progress. Not saying it will fix it for sure , but a bios update and complete format/re-install (after you already activated Windows 10 from an upgrade) remedies the blue screens for the Dell/HP/Lenovo laptops we have onsite.
Re:Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Fre... by josu on Saturday October 17, 2015 @12:47PM (#10405013)
I have an Asus laptop and I had to perform black magic in order to get the mini jack audio out to work.
Re:Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Fre... by brazzledazzle on Saturday October 17, 2015 @12:21PM (#10404891)
I don't even bother upgrading Windows on laptops. It's better to wait until all of the drivers are fully supported by the manufacturer then do a clean install. I don't know what Microsoft is thinking. Laptops are incredibly fragile from a driver perspective because of all the non-standard and model specific things they do.
Re:Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Fre... by currysausage on Saturday October 17, 2015 @12:58PM (#10405066)
Actually, most things laptops do are pretty generic, but manufacturers seem obsessed about owning the "experience" of doing the most basic things.

My ThinkPad T430 runs Windows 10 without any Lenovo crapware, and it's such a smooth experience. No more invisible windows randomly popping up in the taskbar, stealing my keyboard focus, no more dozens of TPCRAP.EXE in my autostart.

Re:Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Fre... by smilekzs on Saturday October 17, 2015 @01:05PM (#10405097)
Do you use TrackPoint? If you do, these drivers are inevitable. Considering how fragile and inconsistent across models and versions they are I'd say good luck.

Nice coinage: "TPCRAP.EXE"

Re:Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Fre... by currysausage on Saturday October 17, 2015 @01:20PM (#10405179)
I did install device software that came via Windows Update (mostly unobtrusive stuff), and you're right, I did install the "UltraNav"-branded Synaptics drivers manually from lenovo.com. They are abysmal [1], but still less so than the Synaptics driver that came via WU.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10303162

Re:Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Fre... by DanBC on Saturday October 17, 2015 @01:30PM (#10405233)
But are they actually doing non-standard stuff?

On a new ASUS X205ta ("Windows 8.1 with Bing") the audio drivers are broken, and which don't have Linux drivers yet. (at least, the websites I read from July suggest that.)

Re:Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Fre... by ekianjo on Saturday October 17, 2015 @12:11PM (#10404849)
> The user experience is an upgrade from my perspective, but the upgrade has been anything but painless.

Especially the spying experience is an upgrade. Thanks to the excellent relationship between the NSA and Microsoft. Nice try, Nadella, to make us believe Microsoft has changed.

Re:Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Fre... by agumonkey on Saturday October 17, 2015 @12:59PM (#10405071)
Microsoft has been pushing to put himself back into the stage lights (open source, surface pro|book engineering). If they were willing to really give users help and resources, maybe deals for hardware upgrade so customers have the smoothest upgrade possible it would make a difference. Musk have been doing this with Tesla, every time something caused troubles, he gave it for "free".
Re:Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Fre... by chrisseaton on Saturday October 17, 2015 @11:22AM (#10404647)
Would you still want to delay updating if Microsoft stopped all security updates for the previous version of Windows after releasing the new one? I think only supporting one version at a time has a lot of benefits like being able to focus on development and security for just one version. And I think we might all be better off collectively if everyone just upgraded straight away.
Re:Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Fre... by AnthonyMouse on Saturday October 17, 2015 @12:04PM (#10404819)
Most people only want the security updates. You can tout the new features of Windows 10 all you like, but most people don't actually need them and the short-term value of the new features is less than the retraining cost of learning how to use them. Incurring that up-front retraining cost on a frequent basis causes you to never come out ahead. This is why everyone kept using Windows XP until it was completely unsupported and Windows 7 is the new Windows XP.

If anything what people want are less frequent releases with longer support periods. Or at least designate specific infrequent releases like Windows 7 for multi-decade long-term support -- if they would do that then they could reduce the support period for the non-LTS releases and end up supporting fewer versions at once.

Re:Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Fre... by Silhouette on Saturday October 17, 2015 @09:11PM (#10406858)
If anything what people want are less frequent releases with longer support periods.

I wish the big name software vendors would understand this, but the hype train has a lot of momentum right now and it seems like everyone is trying to jump on board.

The reality is that stability and reliability in your software bring huge benefits. Big changes can bring big benefits too, but usually any improvements are more modest. And the kicker is that even quite small changes can make something work worse from the user's personal, subjective point of view, and this is actively bad.

My standard policy on our Win7 machines at work has been security updates only for quite a while now. I don't see anything pushing us to install Win10 on any of those machines right now. In fact this whole farcical exercise has been a great demonstration of why we shouldn't: the more Microsoft try to abuse the update process in older versions of Windows, the clearer it becomes that a version of Windows where updates are mandatory shouldn't be trusted.

Re:Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Fre... by scrollaway on Saturday October 17, 2015 @11:27AM (#10404661)
I want to point out that this logic is based on the implication that newer is more secure, and that isn't always True, especially in closed source products. Many apps have gone from generally-good software to adware in a coupe of auto-updates. Similar things could happen to Windows - in fact, the privacy issues I pointed out in the post below are a facet of that.
Re:Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Fre... by chrisseaton on Saturday October 17, 2015 @11:55AM (#10404784)
No that's not what I said. I didn't imply that newer is more secure. I said if Microsoft spent its efforts on securing just Windows 10, instead of Windows 10, 8, 7, Vista and XP all the same time the results might be better. That's not newness - it's resourcing. The same would be true if they put everyone onto Windows XP instead.