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Re:Windows 10 upgrade installing automatically on some Windo... by smt88 on Friday October 16, 2015 @05:05PM (#10401999)
> Was anyone at Microsoft fired?

As a tech worker, I don't want to live in a world where tech workers are fired because they make a small, fixable mistake.

> Did Microsoft offer a way to undo an unwanted install of Windows 10?

Yes. You can downgrade Windows 10 to whatever you installed it on top of. I think this has been possible since the Vista -> 7 upgrade.

Re:Windows 10 upgrade installing automatically on some Windo... by TazeTSchnitzel on Friday October 16, 2015 @05:22PM (#10402086)
> Yes. You can downgrade Windows 10 to whatever you installed it on top of. I think this has been possible since the Vista -> 7 upgrade.

It's been possible with every version of Windows, I believe. Windows 95 would rename your old Windows directory. And earlier versions didn't try to control the hard drive, as they weren't your OS - though 95 didn't try to own it fully, it lacked a My Documents directory and expected you to make your own root directory folders to store file!

Re:Windows 10 upgrade installing automatically on some Windo... by mappu on Friday October 16, 2015 @05:48PM (#10402219)
The SR2 update for Windows 95 introduced a My Documents folder (along with FAT32 support).

Wasn't it possible to store user files in C:/Windows/Profiles/{username}/ , too ?

Re:Windows 10 upgrade installing automatically on some Windo... by TazeTSchnitzel on Friday October 16, 2015 @05:59PM (#10402274)
> The SR2 update for Windows 95 introduced a My Documents folder (along with FAT32 support).

OSR2 did indeed do that, but it was a later addition. And Windows NT 4 never got My Documents.

> Wasn't it possible to store user files in C:/Windows/Profiles/{username}/ , too ?

I think so, but I don't know if the OS really especially encouraged you to store things there.

Re:Windows 10 upgrade installing automatically on some Windo... by togusa on Friday October 16, 2015 @05:45PM (#10402200)
> Yes. You can downgrade Windows 10 to whatever you installed it on top of.

This doesn't work in a huge number of situations. It just reports failure.

Re:Windows 10 upgrade installing automatically on some Windo... by smt88 on Saturday October 17, 2015 @01:13AM (#10403469)
> This doesn't work in a huge number of situations. It just reports failure.

What's a "huge number"? I'd say only a tiny minority of Windows users even try to downgrade. I tried to Google this ("windows downgrade failed") and couldn't find many examples.

Unless you work at Microsoft and have real data from users, I don't think you (or I) have the data to claim that few or many of these downgrades fail. There's just no way to really know.

Re:Windows 10 upgrade installing automatically on some Windo... by togusa on Saturday October 17, 2015 @04:18AM (#10403767)
I do a lot of voluntary support on reddit. There are literally 10 people a day who this breaks for just on there.
Re:Windows 10 upgrade installing automatically on some Windo... by ZoF on Saturday October 17, 2015 @01:48PM (#10405312)
Please link to 10 people experiencing this issue and posting about it in a 24 hour period.
Re:Windows 10 upgrade installing automatically on some Windo... by CamperBob2 on Friday October 16, 2015 @05:29PM (#10402120)
As a tech worker, I don't want to live in a world where tech workers are fired because they make a small, fixable mistake.

The quality of work coming out of the Windows Update group has been seriously problematic lately. It's well past time to fire some people.

Re:Windows 10 upgrade installing automatically on some Windo... by krylon on Friday October 16, 2015 @06:08PM (#10402335)
For the past 2.5 years, I've been working as sysadmin / helpdesk monkey at a mostly-Windows shop.

On Debian or CentOS, updates are simple - if any updates are available, you install them. End of story.

On Windows, as I have learnt the hard way, simply installing all available updates is pretty much begging for trouble. During my training at Deutsche Telekom, when I heard that they had a whole team whose only task was testing Windows updates, I thought they were being wussies. Now, I envy them. The reality for me is more like checking online discussion boards to see if anyone was dumb enough to just install all the updates, yet smart enough to figure out which ones caused them trouble, then only approving those updates nobody has complained about. It is kind of like playing Russian roulette.

As as Unix-person looking at the Windows world from an outsider's perspective (kind of), I am kind of shocked that this is the OS powering approximately 90% of corporate desktops. Imagine if, following the end of the Cold War, Western car companies had been driven out of business by the Trabbi. That is pretty much what has happened in the PC world.

And, yes, I get that Windows is tortured by more combinations of hardware and software than anyone wants to imagine, and QA for their updates must be a living hell. But IIRC, Microsoft also made something like 20 billion dollars in profit last year, so they could easily spend one billion on making Windows update not suck - or at least suck slightly less - and still be disgustingly profitable.

The worst thing is that people who have known no other OS but Windows all their lives fail to see how utterly wrong this is. Either they just don't know any better, or it's a massive case of Stockholm syndrome...

(Sorry, but I've had that on my mind for a while, and since it was patchday this week, I hope you can understand my need to vent a little...)

Re:Windows 10 upgrade installing automatically on some Windo... by smt88 on Saturday October 17, 2015 @01:15AM (#10403476)
> simply installing all available updates is pretty much begging for trouble

I've done this since Windows 95. It hasn't caused me a problem since Windows XP SP2. I actually love Windows update and missed it when I was on Linux. Ubuntu's kernel upgrades would randomly break sleep, audio, special keys on my keyboard, or other weird stuff.

Re:Windows 10 upgrade installing automatically on some Windo... by krylon on Saturday October 17, 2015 @03:58AM (#10403741)
Mmmh, point taken. I only had problem with updates on Linux when I was using Gentoo and lived on the unstable branch (and unstable, of course, implies that such problems are to be expected).

There is a difference between administrating a single machine at home, or maybe a handful, or taking care of a company network of (in my case) about 80 machines (and that is still a tiny network, I suppose). Problems that a typical user only sees once in a couple of years become disturbingly common as the number of machines grows, and I guess that is true regardless of the operating system being used.

Having said that, I have encountered some rather strange and frustrating problems with Windows updates. One time, a Windows update would somehow not successfully register itself as being installed, but it did require a reboot. So after installing the update, the user rebooted her system, finding yet another update (the very same, in fact) available, install it, reboot, find another update... For some reason, only two machines in our network were affected by this problem, and I have no clue why it was these specific machines. One time, an update to Office 2013 overwrote some VB script that Autodesk Inventor happened to depend on, causing it to crash while displaying the splash screen; reinstalling Inventor hepled with that, but now Outlook would crash when trying to write an email. Another time, an update caused a few machines to hang while booting. There was an update to Windows 8.1 that was not called a Service Pack, but for all intents and purposes, it was, and Microsoft said that without this update installed, 8.1 machines would no longer receive updates; however, this update caused 8.1 in combination with a specific version of WSUS to no longer talk to the WSUS server - I think this is what people call a Catch 22.

And the list goes on and on. I have only a few years of experience taking care of a relatively tiny number of systems. Like I said, I understand now why large companies run labs where they test Windows updates - and updates by other software vendors, too, I suppose - against each and every combination of hardware and software being used on the corporate network.

Just because you did not run into problems does not mean there are none, just as my experience with updates on Linux and FreeBSD is not representative of what it is like to run dozens or hundreds of machines with these operating systems. However, currently the operating being used on the majority of company networks is Windows, and the company making billions of that is Microsoft.

Although, to be fair, in many cases where an update to Windows breaks a third party application, I suspect the third party is at least as much to blame. In my case, I have grown very weary of Siemens automation software (Simatic, WinCC, TIA), which is very sensitive with regards to updates, to say the least. So, to a degree, Microsoft has merely become a victim of its own success.

Re:Windows 10 upgrade installing automatically on some Windo... by togusa on Friday October 16, 2015 @05:43PM (#10402185)
I agree. This is the fourth major issue. Firstly they told everyone that they're not going to fully describe updates any more. Then there was the whole telemetry thing. This was closely followed by a test update was pushed out recently as well which caused major administrative panic. Now this.

I'm not sure that firing people is the right approach but this is not acceptable.

Re:Windows 10 upgrade installing automatically on some Windo... by shmed on Friday October 16, 2015 @05:55PM (#10402254)
Right, because pushing major updates to hundreds of millions of users, each using different hardware, with different OS versions, different level of customization on that OS and different software installed is SUCH a trivial thing to do. No room for small (repairable) errors that might affect a handful of people under certain circumstances.
Re:Windows 10 upgrade installing automatically on some Windo... by CamperBob2 on Friday October 16, 2015 @06:03PM (#10402303)
It's not trivial, you're right -- which is why you put your A-level people on it. Windows Update is Windows now... yet every week it seems they push another broken, malformed, or generally customer-unfriendly update. Their new policy of suppressing release notes is just (brown) icing on the cake.

The end result of all this stupidity is to incentivize users to turn off automatic updates. Everybody with an Internet connection will suffer for that.