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Re:AVG can sell your browsing and search history to advertisers by Stratoscope on Sunday September 20, 2015 @06:13PM (#10249375)
I hate antivirus software with a passion. I've wasted too many weeks of my life hacking around bugs that antivirus programs introduced into my customers' systems.

A couple I've dealt with in the last six months:

McAfee Antivirus causes applications built with Unity 4 to fail when they call WWW.LoadFromCacheOrDownload() on a large asset bundle. This API call downloads a temp file and then renames the file to move it into the cache. But McAfee also opens the file for a virus scan. For a large file, the virus scan may not complete before Unity tries to rename the file, so the rename fails and you never get the asset bundle.

For one client I fixed this by patching Unity's .exe file to add a retry loop on the rename call. Unity 5 also works around this issue with the same retry loop.

AVG Antivirus causes updates to fail for applications that use wyUpdate. wyUpdate calls the CreateMutex() function in the Windows API to make sure another updater instance isn't already running. Bizarrely, when AVG is installed, CreateMutex() returns the wrong value, so wyUpdate thinks another instance is running and bails out. No updates for you!

Going back a few years, I tried NOD32 after some friends recommended it. It seemed fine, except the Alt+Tab key no longer worked. It was a known bug, unfixed for some time.

About 5-6 years ago, McAfee had a known bug - unfixed for nearly a year - than under some circumstances it would erase the entire hard drive. This was the ultimate in virus protection!

Re:AVG can sell your browsing and search history to advertisers by userbinator on Sunday September 20, 2015 @08:24PM (#10249761)
False positives are the other dark side of AV; here's AVG detecting completely innocuous "Hello World" programs as potential threats:

http://www.cplusplus.com/forum/beginner/67634/

https://groups.google.com/d/topic/mingwusers/kFrCqECTY_Y

Along the same lines, it's rather common that keygens/cracks/patches are detected as false positives too:

http://underlore.com/anti-virus-community-creates-false-posi...

Re:AVG can sell your browsing and search history to advertisers by PhasmaFelis on Monday September 21, 2015 @03:29AM (#10250859)
I think "detected as false positives" is too mildly put. It implies that it's an honest if bumbling mistake, rather than deliberate and malicious FUD.
Re:AVG can sell your browsing and search history to advertisers by dspillett on Monday September 21, 2015 @04:45AM (#10251090)
> it's rather common that keygens/cracks/patches are detected as false positives

That is unavoidable if the scanning engine is trying to apply heuristics to pick up on attacks (or variants thereof) that are not in its database yet, especially with cracks and other patches: changing the behaviour of executables the way they do is by its nature similar to what viruses and worms are attempting to do.

Re:AVG can sell your browsing and search history to advertisers by kbenson on Sunday September 20, 2015 @09:03PM (#10249863)
Maybe the Ken Thompson Hack[1] is alive in the wild, or AVG just believes it is. ;)

1: Reflections on Trusting Trust: https://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/linux/hh/thompson/trust.html

Re:AVG can sell your browsing and search history to advertisers by mattkrea on Sunday September 20, 2015 @09:53PM (#10249991)
That's exactly what XcodeGhost is/was
Re:AVG can sell your browsing and search history to advertisers by joe_the_user on Sunday September 20, 2015 @10:33PM (#10250069)
Years ago, I would have ended a similar rant with "what we need is designs that just don't do things like autorun and view-attachments-by-default"

But now, the "attack surface" has expanded inexorably to the point where the alternative to AV appears to be... none.

So this just seems to be the modern Internet, where the average user is more or less at the behest of rackets not much better than the rackets that control botnets if they aren't actually infected by them.

I've heard some botnets patch the system and expel other intruders. Yes, now, "everything is free... infection and protection equally".

Is there an alternative?

Re:AVG can sell your browsing and search history to advertisers by ant6n on Monday September 21, 2015 @01:44AM (#10250564)
Don't use Windows
Re:AVG can sell your browsing and search history to advertisers by dspillett on Monday September 21, 2015 @05:36AM (#10251237)
It isn't nearly that simple any more and hasn't been for quite a time.

The Windows security model is not the broken mess it once was when properly used so the key problem is user behaviour particularly home users running as full admin, installing random crap without thinking about it (or simply not knowing any better), just clicking through any warnings they do get, and so forth.

If enough of that sort of user migrates over to Linux and kicks it into working the way they want (i.e. the bad way they used to work under Windows) you'll no doubt see the number of effective exploits balloon massively.

Jeff Wayne's Martians were right: "The problem is, of course, the humans."

Re:AVG can sell your browsing and search history to advertisers by ant6n on Monday September 21, 2015 @08:38PM (#10256015)
With alternatives like iOS, I feel it's simpler than ever to switch away from Windows. I'm not advocating using their closed ecosystem, but it may have some advantage. Especially for those grandparents etc.
Re:AVG can sell your browsing and search history to advertisers by Moru on Monday September 21, 2015 @02:15AM (#10250645)
That only works until enough people use an alternative. Then it will be interesting to start searching for bugs and security holes in the alternative. Just look at all the webserver exploits lately. Nothing is bugfree.
Re:AVG can sell your browsing and search history to advertisers by tluyben2 on Monday September 21, 2015 @10:07AM (#10252334)
Still works now though so it holds true. However for instance Android is used far more than Windows and iOS is getting close and those are still not close the misery Windows is in this regard.
Re:AVG can sell your browsing and search history to advertisers by kedean on Monday September 21, 2015 @10:42AM (#10252596)
We don't really have a reliable measure of how many attacks are happening on Android and iOS, though. Unlike with a PC, users are much more likely to attribute malware-related problems to 'my phone is just old, I need a new one'. I would attribute this to a mixture of phone commodification (iPhone's appear to be pretty cheap thanks to subsidy plans) and the effects of cloud infrastructure. Users have basically nothing to lose by swapping out phone hardware, because what'll you do, ransom their contact list?
Re:AVG can sell your browsing and search history to advertisers by Springtime on Sunday September 20, 2015 @11:26PM (#10250184)
Around 2008 or so I seem to remember Kaspersky writing metadata to every file on the OS when scanning, requiring more frequent (and longer) drive defragging. Nowadays I just use Defender on Windows 8, EMET and browser common sense. Occasionally firing up a sandbox for testing programs. Having NoScript enabled alone helps a great deal in preventing many exploits.
Re:AVG can sell your browsing and search history to advertisers by hvo on Sunday September 20, 2015 @09:19PM (#10249912)
+1 for your comment. I really can't stand antivirus software.Sometimes no antivirus is better than antivirus software.It is another area of software development that is broken and crying for a fix.Who is ready to up this challenge?
Re:AVG can sell your browsing and search history to advertisers by tim333 on Tuesday September 22, 2015 @04:34AM (#10257365)
The best fix would seem to be more secure OSs like iOS and Chromebooks.
Re:AVG can sell your browsing and search history to advertisers by mccracken on Sunday September 20, 2015 @09:35PM (#10249952)
I'm interested, how did you figure out that's what was happening (just the first example)?
Re:AVG can sell your browsing and search history to advertisers by Stratoscope on Sunday September 20, 2015 @10:00PM (#10250001)
For the issue with McAfee interfering with file move calls, Unity was logging an error message that said something like "Cannot move file into cache." That was a good clue that a file move operation was failing.

So I ran the app under the amazing API Monitor [1] and enabled logging for MoveFileA(), MoveFileW(), MoveFileExA(), MoveFileExW(), and similar "move file" APIs. It showed a failure on a MoveFileExW() call with the address of the call.

We'd found that Unity 5 didn't have the same problem (but we weren't ready to migrate to Unity 5 yet), so I also ran a Unity 5 test app under API Monitor and found the same failure on MoveFileExW(), along with several retries on the call until it succeeded. This told me just what I needed to patch the call for the Unity 4 app.

For the issue with AVG and wyUpdate, since wyUpdate is open source I just ran it under the debugger, and as luck would have it, the failing mutex.WaitOne() call was near the beginning of Program::Main() in the C# code [2].

(I mentioned WinMain() and CreateMutex() previously - I was writing that from memory and double-checked it now.)

[1] http://www.rohitab.com/apimonitor

[2] https://github.com/geary/wyupdate/blob/master/Program.cs#L40

Re:AVG can sell your browsing and search history to advertisers by mccracken on Monday September 21, 2015 @01:51AM (#10250589)
Pragmatic!