I own a Wii and I hate it. That controller is cool but once you get used to it the games themselves are pretty lame.

And you can't use Wii for pretty much anything else. Surely you could "buy" a browser with Wii-points (if they haven't made it free already). But the web-browsing experience is also pretty lame. And you can't use it to watch movies.

So I bought a Wii because it was cheaper at the time (not anymore). But you won't catch me buying any games for it. I just borrowed some games I didn't like and now it's just sitting there ... and from time to time when a friend comes I just take out the free "Wii Sports" that came bundled with it.

If Wii really outsels Xbox it doesn't say much because they target different markets.

For many people it's a 'one or the other' even though they're technically different target markets.

WII hit the sweet spot and sold an enormous number of units in a very short time, and for a very large number of those one xbox less was sold.

When the kids got a Wii I bought some Wii points just to get the browser. I used it once. An app that requires me to sit pretty much exactly in front of the tv to be able to control it just isn't all that useful to me.

Per quarter profitable. MSFT is public so you can see the PnL sheets online. Xbox will be in the "Entertainment and Devices" division which also includes Microsoft Hardware and, oddly, Mac Office (maybe not still). I don't know the exact numbers, but my understanding is that we are projected to be out of the $6B hole within a few years.

As for the Wii, it's a great product, but it is fundamentally a differet market and business model. Nintendo makes money on hardware sales. They have a low attach rate of primarily 1st party games. Microsoft makes money on royalties. Xbox had an unprecidented high attach rate with significant 3rd party profit sharing. Xbox LIVE is also a hearty subscription business.

So, overall as of this writing it still is a net loss, but it is quite impressive if they planned to take a loss for more than a decade to come out on top.

I agree that nintendo has a different business model, but I think there is significant overlap between the markets, in other words I would expect xbox sales and wii sales to be competing at least in part for the same dollars.

Or is it a documented fact that those that own a wii buy xboxes later on ?

Bill Gates once boasted that he could run Microsoft for a decade with no income whatsoever. So, yeah, long times until returns is normal with them. Actually, I wouldn't wonder at all if they just did the math, projected that the entire project will be a net loss, and did it anyway. Just how do you account for strengthening DirectX and helping keep windows entrenched on the desktop with Games for Windows?

That's funny, if that is true then that is really proof positive they lost their way.

If you are thinking in terms of making products at a loss just for the heck of it then you are no longer competitive, you're already on the way down, it's just that the ground is still a long way off.

I doubt that's their real perspective. But the eagerness with which a 6 billion loss and a 7 year losing streak gets polished away with 'in a few years we'll be in the black' is quite amazing. I wouldn't be too proud of that.

The way these things get spun we'll probably never know the truth though. Nobody seems to like to admit to failure, even when it is blatantly obvious to the rest of the world. Zune anyone ?

Within a few years? Who knows what other consoles will be out by then. IMHO xBox looks like a big fat failure.