News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over... by nitrogen on Friday September 18, 2015 @01:03PM (#10240364)
Just like sports, even stiffer fine and ruined reputation on being caught cheating.

Just like sports, companies will still cheat. When punishment doesn't work, the answer is rarely more punishment.

Re:Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over... by sbov on Friday September 18, 2015 @01:10PM (#10240427)
Caveat: if the punishment does not exceed the profit from cheating, it's not a punishment it's a cost of doing business.
Re:Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over... by swang on Friday September 18, 2015 @01:34PM (#10240647)
See: Johnson & Johnson w/ their drug risperdal: $2 billion in penalties... $30 billion in sales.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/17/opinion/nicholas-kristof-w...

Re:Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over... by refurb on Friday September 18, 2015 @04:05PM (#10241732)
That's a poor comparison. Not all of the $30B in sales were fraudulent.

Actually, in order to come up with the $2B penalty, the gov't determines the number of fraudulent Rxs, then hits the manufacturer with triple damages (this is typical).

J&J would have been better off financially had they never committed the fraud they did.

Re:Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over... by emn13 on Friday September 18, 2015 @04:35PM (#10241904)
You need to account for the probability of being caught. It's quite likely to be significantly lower than 1/3, so they might still have come out ahead.

Even if they're just breaking even, it's a kind of loan - they had the gain a long time ago, and pay the costs much later. If you're a risky business, that's potentially worth a lot, since investors might be hard to find.

And if you account for that you need to account for the asymmetry of risk due to bankruptcy protections - even if the average payout is negative, fines are effectively capped at what the firm can pay, so the effective expected payout may still be positive. (Assuming those making this decision escape personal liability).

Re:Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over... by Lawtonfogle on Friday September 18, 2015 @02:41PM (#10241215)
You forgot to multiply the cost if caught by the chance to be caught.
Re:Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over... by mikeash on Friday September 18, 2015 @02:56PM (#10241316)
Of course it is. Companies usually behave rationally with regards to regulation and punishment. If the cost of breaking the rules is lower than the cost of following them, companies will break the rules. If you increase the cost of breaking the rules such that the situation is reversed, then companies will follow the rules.