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Re:Interpretations of quantum theory: A map of madness by ThomPete on Thursday September 17, 2015 @10:40AM (#10233601)
The issues with explaining QM today seems to be that the math and experimental parts are all as tested and proven as they possible can be just as much as classical physics. Whats putting sand in the machine is that it just doesn't make sense philosophically.

So if you will allow a complete novice some wild speculation here to provide a different perspective.

Maybe they are just two different fields with a different base premise and maybe thats ok.

Perhaps what is really shown here, is the limits of western thought process.

I have always wondered if zen buddhisms way to deal with reality, is much better capable at explaining whats going on because it's comfortable dealing with paradoxes ("If it's not paradoxical it's not true" as Zen Master Suzuki Roshi wrote).

I am not a zen buddhist and there is a big risk that I as a westerner don't understand zen buddhism (I know i don't understand QM) but it seems to me that western semantics and rhetorics are actually getting in the way of providing us with a way to be at ease with what seems to be a fact; that we can't explain QM through language.

Re:Interpretations of quantum theory: A map of madness by marcosdumay on Thursday September 17, 2015 @11:44AM (#10233967)
It looks like the "shut-up and calculate" school is the one with most adepts. It's also very zen-like to me (or I completely don't understand what zen is, not an unlikely alternative).

The problem is that the imaginary journalist has an agenda and will completely ignore any "shut-up and calculate" answer. The author really needs to make a better case about the interpretations having different empirical outcomes, because it's not obvious at all.

Re:Interpretations of quantum theory: A map of madness by ThomPete on Thursday September 17, 2015 @01:48PM (#10234929)
I don't think you are wrong at all in fact I think you are very much correct in the sense that the answer can't be formulated in language other than one closer to what it is and there mathematics is closer than english.

Problem is that mathematics isn't enough to make it useful (i.e. predictable) you need a combination of math and experiments to turn it into something that can be used.

Re:Interpretations of quantum theory: A map of madness by marcosdumay on Thursday September 17, 2015 @09:05PM (#10237000)
Hum, the "shut-up and calculate" idea is that the theory works, people've tested it. Now you either use it, or go find empirical flaws, so people can improve the theory. But thinking about the reasons your math looks like that has no use, unless you get something with observable consequences, don't waste the time.

There's nothing in it about math being a perfect language, or experiments not being necessary.

Re:Interpretations of quantum theory: A map of madness by ThomPete on Friday September 18, 2015 @07:15AM (#10238504)
Yes thats we have scientist and mathematicians for. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try and also see if we can put it in different perspectives that help us understand the field.

If you want to shut-up and calculate by all means. That doesn't mean I or others have to. After all we are humans.

Re:Interpretations of quantum theory: A map of madness by marcosdumay on Friday September 18, 2015 @09:13AM (#10238958)
No, I don't want you to follow it. In fact, my personal ideas are a bit different too.

But it is the most usual approach (or, at least, almost everybody works under it almost all the time - but people may identify with somehting else), and the article didn't make a good claim for why we shouldn't just shut-up and calculate.

Re:Interpretations of quantum theory: A map of madness by ThomPete on Friday September 18, 2015 @10:40AM (#10239442)
Thats a completely fair point, however I wasn't basing it on this alone :)
Re:Interpretations of quantum theory: A map of madness by pharrington on Thursday September 17, 2015 @12:27PM (#10234323)
some words for whom Feynman's imperative is not enough:

A paradox is just a scenario that betrays the subject's lack of, or inappropriate, context. They are a perceptual phenomenon. Indeed, language and imagery will not explain QM and there is no problem with that. The only philosophy required is that which understands that different tools are needed to work appropriately with different layers of complexity and scale; the proven appropriate tool for the apparently most basic layer is math.

Re:Interpretations of quantum theory: A map of madness by ThomPete on Thursday September 17, 2015 @01:50PM (#10234935)
Thats one perspective yes, but you aren't the only one with both knowledge and an opinion on that of course.
Re:Interpretations of quantum theory: A map of madness by Raster42 on Thursday September 17, 2015 @11:36AM (#10233917)
It sounds like you might enjoy "The Tao of Physics" by Fritjof Capra. There's a free PDF version online.
Re:Interpretations of quantum theory: A map of madness by anentropic on Thursday September 17, 2015 @11:37AM (#10233924)
so you're saying they should give up?
Re:Interpretations of quantum theory: A map of madness by ThomPete on Thursday September 17, 2015 @01:46PM (#10234915)
I am saying they should change the question.