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Re:Google’s look, evolved by ryandrake on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @01:40PM (#10154260)
I've never understood that criticism. Business decisions should be data driven. You test new signup flows to see which one onboards users better. You test advertising changes to see which one converts better. Why should a logo design or a title bar color be any different? Without testing each iteration, how do you know which one has the best effect on whatever success metrics you're using? I can understand if you're worried about optimizing to a local maxima, but that's not a criticism of A/B testing, it's a criticism of the diversity of the available inputs.
Re:Google’s look, evolved by stestagg on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @02:00PM (#10154424)
User testing is great, and very useful for so many people.

BUT, when you're the size of Google, or Facebook, or Microsoft, Things look a bit different.

Most people are far more conservative than they realise, but also, perversely, adapt quite quickly to change if they experience it day-to-day. This means that if an interface has enough inertia, then a change that performs badly in user testing, can actually quite quickly be accepted by people. (PROVIDED it's actually better).

In the first example, every change to the Facebook UI is met by a barrage of criticism and hatred, but they seem to actually make good decisions, so the changes get absorbed by users, and things continue.

Having said that, Microsoft struggle, because they often make changes that are fundamentally bad decisions, and have to back-down. For example, the Office ribbon took a while to be accepted, but is /generally/ liked nowadays by people, because it was functionally a good change (yes, some people will disagree, but the majority wins on this front). Taking broad user testing results on the ribbon would probably have stopped microsoft from progressing with it. On the other hand, the 'Metro'/Tile UI in windows 8 was an actual usability disaster, and has forced them to revert to a more common pattern until someone can design new metaphors that actually improve usability in windows.

Finding test subjects that aren't used to, and comfortable with, the google font/design styles, to give objective feedback on a change, is really hard.

[ I didn't mention first time round, but I /really/ don't like the new logo, that lowercase g makes me cringe inside every time I see it. ]

Re:Google’s look, evolved by raldi on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @01:57PM (#10154397)
> Business decisions should be data driven.

The evolutionary, data-driven approach will never yield a Nest thermostat, iPhone, Helvetica, or flag of New Mexico. We have no idea how to even begin to write a fitness function for good design.

Re:Google’s look, evolved by blt on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @02:54PM (#10154821)
Actually Helvetica is an evolution of the 1896 typeface Akzidenz-Grotesk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akzidenz-Grotesk

Re:Google’s look, evolved by raldi on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @02:58PM (#10154841)
But it wasn't designed by an evolutionary algorithm; it was designed by a genius typographer who trusted his own sense of taste.
Re:Google’s look, evolved by fixermark on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @04:28PM (#10155435)
I'm not sure where you think taste comes from besides evolution of ideas and data analysis done by black-box functions inside people's heads.

Formalizing that process and using externally-collected data is just de-black-boxing something that happens in a black-box form in the professional's mind.

Re:Google’s look, evolved by ryandrake on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @04:52PM (#10155630)
Also, making decisions based on wishy-washy difficult-to-quantify human traits like "genius" and "sense of taste" seems unnecessarily risky, compared to making them based on measurements from repeatable tests.
Re:Google’s look, evolved by raldi on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @06:30PM (#10156249)
Re:Google’s look, evolved by ryandrake on Wednesday September 02, 2015 @09:55AM (#10159123)
I'm not advocating design by committee. I'm advocating justification with data. The designers should propose candidate designs. But the decision about which one to go with (or whether to redesign at all) should be supported by whether going with it furthers the business's goals.

You point out the need to pick the right measurement, and I agree, but it could be as simple as "What's the effect on conversion?" It has to be something! You can't just say "We're re-designing because I'm a HMI genius."

Re:Google’s look, evolved by raldi on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @06:33PM (#10156260)
When a company is capable of replicating those black-box functions as an algorithm or business process, then it will be ready to launch the era of automated design.

Until then, the best known way to design something nice is to hire a talented designer and trust their instincts.

Re:Google’s look, evolved by ryandrake on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @04:04PM (#10155293)
> The evolutionary, data-driven approach will never yield a Nest thermostat, iPhone, Helvetica, or flag of New Mexico

...for now, given today's technology, but I wouldn't bet on it long term. History is full of examples of things we once thought only humans could do.

But once many candidate designs are available to choose from, what better a way is there to unambiguously decide on the best besides testing and measuring?

Re:Google’s look, evolved by raldi on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @05:35PM (#10155924)
As I said, the problem is writing the tests and knowing what to measure. How do you discern between a bunch of tests and measurements that are poorly-designed, and a bunch that are well-designed? You gather a bunch of people with good taste, and trust their gut.

But at that point, why not just cut out the middleman, forget the tests, and let the artists be artists?

See also: Footnote 3 of http://www.paulgraham.com/colleges.html#f3n

Re:Google’s look, evolved by seiji on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @02:42PM (#10154726)
signup flows to see which one onboards users better.

The trick is: there is no global "better" — only 'better', given a specific group of users.

Which users though? Running a million 40 year olds from Iowa through your website flow will generate a widely different result from running a million 13 year olds in Atlanta through the same process.

Google is still stuck in the "one design for everybody in the world" mindset, so they have to be appealing to everybody, which naturally makes them bland.

success metrics you're using

Success metrics! The paradox of these hyper-optimization methods is they largely apply in hyper-trivial situations. Once you are big enough, you just tell people how things will be. They don't get to have a say anymore.

Re:Google’s look, evolved by puranjay on Wednesday September 02, 2015 @03:00AM (#10157792)
You can't quantify taste.

And you can't rely on past data to create new trends because that data doesn't even exist.

Data said that children's books don't sell. But then Harry Potter happened. Data also said that people loved phones with keyboards. Then the iPhone happened.