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Re:The War on Drugs and Prison Growth: Limited importance an... by vezzy-fnord on Thursday August 20, 2015 @10:01AM (#10091848)
Even putting aside the penal effects, the primary opposition to the War on Drugs has always been about personal freedom and the right to determine one's own destiny. All else is secondary.
Re:The War on Drugs and Prison Growth: Limited importance an... by danharaj on Thursday August 20, 2015 @10:07AM (#10091897)
> the primary opposition to the War on Drugs has always been about personal freedom and the right to determine one's own destiny

Maybe if one or one's family hasn't been directly harmed by the drug war? I don't think such an abstract idea could possibly be the primary opposition to any policy. These state policies have physically destroyed communities and lives. People want their families, and they want to stop being oppressed by the police. They want the baton and tear gas out of their face. That's the primary opposition.

Abstract principles are always secondary to material reality.

Re:The War on Drugs and Prison Growth: Limited importance an... by simplulo on Thursday August 20, 2015 @11:16AM (#10092366)
"Always"? Pretty sweeping, categorical assertion. Voters' politics is based on interest, identity, and values. The latter two often run counter to the first (e.g. poor whites in the Republican Party, blacks in the Democratic Party). Blacks suffer disproportionately from Drug Prohibition, but many are religious and culturally conservative, and would like to see the death penalty for drug dealers (assuming the police could be trusted). They blame the drugs, not Drug Prohibition.

Lots of your anti-prohibition activists are wealthy progressives and libertarians who, like me, like David Simon, have no personal stake in the outcome.

Re:The War on Drugs and Prison Growth: Limited importance an... by danharaj on Thursday August 20, 2015 @11:30AM (#10092472)
Sorry, that "always" should have been accompanied with an "ought". Adhering to principle in spite of material conditions and consequences is, and I know I haven't supported this thesis, "bad".
Re:The War on Drugs and Prison Growth: Limited importance an... by kazinator on Thursday August 20, 2015 @10:40AM (#10092116)
> I don't think such an abstract idea could possibly be the primary opposition to any policy.

Then why have a big, green statue on an island off the shore of New Jersey? What does that stand for?

Re:The War on Drugs and Prison Growth: Limited importance an... by danharaj on Thursday August 20, 2015 @10:47AM (#10092169)
Propaganda. The big green statue that was supposed to welcome people to its shores has not lifted its finger to protect the millions of people whose personhood is being deemed 'illegal'. It stands for an "idea", an idea defends no one and can be claimed by anyone. The idea that statue stands for is claimed by all sides of all mainstream politics in this country.

"A disordered country is full of loyal patriots."

Re:The War on Drugs and Prison Growth: Limited importance an... by vezzy-fnord on Thursday August 20, 2015 @10:12AM (#10091932)
The practical results of minimized police state flow quite organically from the broader abstract principle.
Re:The War on Drugs and Prison Growth: Limited importance an... by danharaj on Thursday August 20, 2015 @10:20AM (#10091984)
Abstract principles like "personal freedom" are incoherent and determine nothing. Suddenly, everything a person wants is "personal freedom" and everything they don't want is "personal oppression" or some shit.

It's just like the naive idea that the "non-aggression principle" determines how people should interact with each other. Suddenly every use of force that the speaker feels is justified is 'retaliatory' and every use of force they feel is unjustified is 'initiatory'.

The only coherence principles like this have are what people already commonly agree on. You don't need to base your politics on principles for that. They do not tell you how to harmonize ideological conflicts or develop and spread ideas that lack consensus.

Re:The War on Drugs and Prison Growth: Limited importance an... by reacweb on Thursday August 20, 2015 @10:14AM (#10091946)
a drug addict is not free anymore.