Re:Finland considers basic income to reform welfare system
by danieltillett on Thursday August 20, 2015 @07:18AM
(#10091089)
It can be unconditional and not apply to children and people collecting pensions. It would not create a huge mess by limiting it to people over 18 and under 65.
Re:Finland considers basic income to reform welfare system
by mason240 on Thursday August 20, 2015 @09:29AM
(#10091657)
Wouldn't the simpler solution be to simply reduce the pensions by the amount of UBI?
For example, a pensioner gettin $40k/year would get $25k under a $15k UBI. You would have to get them to agree to the renegotiation, so I suppose it's not a realistic solution.
Re:Finland considers basic income to reform welfare system
by danieltillett on Thursday August 20, 2015 @10:08AM
(#10091905)
Yes it would, although getting people to give up something is hard. Personally I would structure a UBI as a large negative income tax to try and avoid these problems.
Re:Finland considers basic income to reform welfare system
by 3pt14159 on Thursday August 20, 2015 @09:34AM
(#10091678)
Why should people with pensions not get UBI? They saved their money into a pension vs into a bank account.
Unless you are talking about replacing Social Security, but even there the math isn't as straightforward.
As for 18 and under, I think it's a bit tough. A 6 person household with 4 kids needs much more than a 2 person household. If we don't supply UBI to the children / wards of the children then we risk needing to recreate social assistance programs. Although it does run the risk of having kids for money, which admittedly probably already happens.
Re:Finland considers basic income to reform welfare system
by danieltillett on Thursday August 20, 2015 @10:02AM
(#10091860)
I was making the point that a UBI can have age exclusions and still be simple. I would be reluctant to provide a full UBI to children since they don't have the freedom to spend the money themselves.
The moment you add conditions and variables, you basically turn it into the complex mess that's the current welfare system.